Bok game plan needs more balance
26 Nov 2012
MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day newspaper column, says the Springboks have no attack and that has to be the focus next year if they are to take on a New Zealand side playing at a pace never seen before.
The aim within the Springbok squad was to win three matches on tour and show the defensive qualities that win World Cup finals. On the surface then, the tour will be viewed as a major success.
The Boks won all three Tests and conceded just one try. Once again they looked impotent with the ball in hand, but this seemed a secondary concern for the coach, captain and squad. They left London as winners.
Only, to win the World Cup in 2015 and win the Rugby Championship in between, the Boks will need greater innovation on attack and a shift in mindset that recognises the need for more balance between attack and defence, and the need for some home truths.
Ireland, Scotland and England are not the measurement of world rugby, and to be the best South Africa have to usurp New Zealand, who currently are playing the game at a pace never seen before, and with a balance in attack and defence that is the envy of every other international team.
The All Blacks leak more tries than the Boks, but they also score more. The All Blacks on their most recent tour have exposed more youngsters to Test rugby, evolved their depth in most positions and still won convincingly. The Boks, in three Tests, picked the best available every time, and some in the squad never got a minute’s game time. Each to their own, but to deny the flaws in Bok rugby at present would be to deny the obvious.
Defence has always been a strength of good Bok teams, but then so has attack. This team currently has no attack and that has to be the focus next year. If not, the Boks will again be a tenacious opponent applauded for character. They will not be the kind of opponent feared because of enterprise.
The Boks never looked like losing at Twickenham against a home side even more inept when it comes to attack. England will always be physical, always be determined and always be a difficult opponent at Twickenham.
The margin of victory was only a point but it may well have been 20. England, with 60% territory and 60% possession, never had the capacity to unlock the Bok defence. Again, they are not the measurement.
The more accurate match to reflect on has to be the All Blacks dismantling of the Boks at Soccer City a few months ago. The All Blacks scored four tries within 50 minutes and asked questions of the Bok defence to which South Africa had no answer.
If the aim is to be a top-three team with the occasional win against the best, then you can’t fault Heyneke Meyer and his Boks this year. If this crop of Boks do have greater ambition, then there has to be greater introspection about an inability to turn dominant periods of play into tries.
If you want to attack the limitations of the Boks in 2012, there is enough to make a convincing argument. If you want to make a case for bravery, commitment and a season that was reasonably successful, you would also find enough for a winning argument.
It all comes down to the interpretation of ambition.
As I write every week, there will always be hope in and for South African rugby, because of good playing numbers. But to set a standard is to take a risk, and in Meyer’s first season there have been few risks taken.
That has to change if the Boks are to be seeded second, with the capacity of being first, or to be second among a group with no prize of toppling the All Blacks.
Meyer will have an easier summer break because of the three tour wins, but I sincerely hope he also has an introspective one. There has to be honesty about the season, which was acceptable without being exceptional.
This squad are being characterised on their ability to defend, but there is just too much defensive in everything about this team, be it in performance or when questioned on performance. Injury to players is presented as a defence to any question that is interpreted as criticism, but only 15 players get to start, and in many positions those currently playing would again be selected — ahead of unavailable players of more experience.
Naturally, the Bok team at Twickenham would be strengthened when Frans Steyn, Bryan Habana and Johan Goosen are again available, and there would be more depth to the forwards when Bismarck du Plessis, Andries Bekker, Schalk Burger, Pierre Spies and Juan Smith are fully fit.
But the core of what constitutes the best team was at Twickenham, and for this best team to mature into a team capable of being the best in the world, there has to be greater cross-examination and less defensiveness about the obvious shortcomings of the year.
117 Comments
26 Nov 2012, 09:45 am
Gameplan sucks dragon balls!
26 Nov 2012, 09:55 am
While I can understand the hype, I really don’t see what Goosen has done to indicate he should start at 10 for the Boks?
Oozes potential, but he’s still needs to prove himself more in the S15 IMO.
26 Nov 2012, 10:05 am
@Bagel-2: He seems a bit frail, perhaps he needs more time at currie cup and super level, he just gets injured too quickly. As an aside I’m still not convinced about Lambie at test level, I understand the argument at currie cup but at test level his mercurial talent is not of standard.
26 Nov 2012, 10:08 am
Fact is, the only test this year where Boks attacked effectively was with Goosen at 10(OZ test in Pretoria). Any comments ?
26 Nov 2012, 10:09 am
RT @keocoza: Bok game plan needs more balance: MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day newspaper column, says the Springb… http://t.c …
26 Nov 2012, 10:14 am
@groel-4: I believe the following week they were up against the Blacks in Soweto and got a whipping in front of a home crowd. And to give these Aussies a rogering is not a recommendation of Bok attacking prowess rather that the Wallabies are totally woeful. The Boks need to play France to see where they really stand in world rugby.
26 Nov 2012, 10:15 am
@Bagel-2: Easy. In the one game that he played, Goosen did something no SA no10 could do for the last 8 years.
Proof himself more in S15? Goosen was the best no10 in the S15 before his injury. In fact. It took the others 4 weeks after his injury to reach equal his stats. So, yeah. We all want to see a good S15 from him next year, but he has done enough to show he is our best option. The only one close to him is Jantjies.
Lambie simply showed this tour that No10 is NOT his position. He seemed out of his depth and he’s obviously not the type of player that makes decisions on his own. He is a brilliant player, but he needs to be given freedom… in other words: less expectation and much less responsibility. No12 is his position. If Goosen can put him into space, he will shine! Although De Jongh is a definite option at 13 when Goosen feeds the backline, I expect Rhule to be the future at 13. But that will probably only happen in 2014.
26 Nov 2012, 10:17 am
@groel-4:
Oz team ravaged by injuries in that game,had 5/6 injuries in that game alone. Take that game with a large pinch of salt
26 Nov 2012, 10:27 am
Goosen is the most naturally gifted flyhalf i have seen SA produce in my lifetime.
miles ahead of everyone else.
we need him to get strong.
26 Nov 2012, 10:29 am
@mpundulu: True, thanks for the insight, but when Goosen got injured in the game against all blacks, they immediately attacked his channel and gained momentum. Tautes lack of experience at 13 was the weakest link in the second half rout. Theres no ways they would have broken the line out wide as easily had someone like J Fourie been there. At present thats the all blacks biggest weapon,
they hit the outside channel with venom, with backup support for the tackle offload. and no more defence thereafter to the try line. Once they get those quick tries, the game is so easy for them to control.If the boks can figure out a way to nullify that, we can bring them back down to earth. Any comments?
26 Nov 2012, 10:41 am
NZ have three back-ups in every position — all test-hardened.
26 Nov 2012, 10:44 am
@groel-9: The ABs attacked his channel from the beginning, this wasn’t clear in the first 30 mins as the boks had forward ascendency, the ABs had to absorb a lot of pressure. In consideration of defensive formations, the ABs employ a stretch or spread attack, they move you from one side of the pitch, then to the other, and then again but the last stretch is quicker, totally reliant on quick hands and hardly any running until the last three players in the line. The emphasis is utilisation of space on the edges to ensure the spread, and the killer is the change in pace, the Boks never had a chance.
26 Nov 2012, 10:44 am
What credentials did ricardo loubscher bring to the boks. Absolutely nothing. In fact he has made the bok backline very boring. There is no link play or role swapping to create the element of the unknown. No crwativity. What I noticed is that our backline seemed to be playing according to strict instructions. Pienaar kicked away front foot possession and zane kirchner cannot run with the ball to save his life. We lack creativity
26 Nov 2012, 10:44 am
Goosen will be HMs first choice 10 next year.
Problem is, if he gets bad ball from the pack like our backline did this weekend, he wont dominate either.
Was it just me or did our pack really struggle to hold onto the ball and clear rucks to provide quick,, quality ball for the backline?
Been happening all tour. We get into good positions and lose the ball or it squirts out the side of the ruck etc.
The last time i saw a Bok pack really assert themselves at the breakdown was the first June test against the Poms.
Since then, its been slow, scrappy ball all season.
No backline can create/dominate with poor quality ball.
26 Nov 2012, 10:45 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-8: Don’t underestimate Naas mate, he was very tidy.
26 Nov 2012, 10:48 am
@puffnpass-12: Does anyone know what Ricardo’s attack philosophy is?
26 Nov 2012, 10:49 am
@John Galt-13:
very true
Bok accuracy at breakdown is pathetic
Slow ball
Also the act that we constantly take up the ball at the congested channel 1 soooo predictable. AB’s forwards pass within themselves varying where to hit it up.They use this ploy very well which creates momentum as teams cant flog one channel with defenders.AB ruck work is amazing.
26 Nov 2012, 10:50 am
I was one of many that was concerned about the compilation of the Bok squad at the start of the International season and was also one of those complaining of the “Blue Boks”. Meyer has admitted his mistakes and the changes in playing personnel showed this so i for one would like to give the coach my full support for next season
26 Nov 2012, 10:51 am
@mpundulu-15:
Isnt Johan van Graan SA “attack coach”???
26 Nov 2012, 10:51 am
Heyneke Meyer, a man of much anxiety, can relax.
Someone who can coach enjoyment out of the most appealing of games can now enjoy himself wherever it is the Meyer clan decamps to over the festive season.
To win all the games on tour is a massive achievement, even if the labour it took was massive too.
And Meyer can look back over his first year as Bok coach with some satisfaction: played 12, won seven, drawn two, lost three. The three in the last column were against Australia and New Zealand and the first of the two defeats by the All Blacks could easily have gone the other way.
He was lucky too.
Lucky he did not run into Ireland in the final game rather than the first. The Ireland who took Argentina to the Dublin cleaners on Saturday night were very different from the side that collapsed in the second half against the Boks.
The overwhelming impression, however, is that Meyer is a coach lacking in enterprise. As Joel Stransky has remarked, Meyer is a deeply conservative man. Just how conservative will be revealed in 2013.
He is a coach whose fear of losing is greater than his sense of adventure.
If his laboured efforts were not clear earlier in the year, they were on the tour. The huge squad he took along was bigger than the Springbok team of 1960-1961 – and that lot stayed for almost five months and played 10 times the number of games. Raymond Rhule and Elton Jantjies might feel their time on tour was wasted, even though it was said they were being introduced to the team “culture”. As Goebbels was once reported to have said: “Ven I hear ze word ‘culture’, I reach for my revolver.”
The more fortunate Boks who got more game time than cultural time are now in need of some R&R. A total tour tackle count is probably available but would make depressing reading. If rugby has come to this, then give me fridge-defrosting any time; at least I will have Nick Mallett for company.
Mallett – and Brendan Venter alongside him on TV during the England game – make up for the dull rugby. Mallett might occasionally get caught up in a maze of his own subordinate clauses but he usually makes sense, especially when he points out Nigel Owens’ shortcomings. The Welshman missed an offside try (for which we were all relieved) but was criminal in reffing the front row. England loosehead Alex Corbisiero got away with murder and poor Jannie du Plessis was made to look like the guilty party. And we all know what an innocent he is.
Venter has always been one of the most cerebral observers of the game. His observation on Saturday night that small players still have a role in this wonderful game will be welcomed by many, but not, I fear, by Meyer.
Will Jantjies ever get his chance? Will Gio Aplon ever get another chance?
In an interview at the weekend, Meyer, in anticipation of those injured Boks returning to the fray in 2013, eagerly mentioned only the big guys. Yes, of course, it will be good to have Andries Bekker, Frans Steyn and even Pierre Spies back. But he also needs players who can pick the gridlock that rugby’s defences have become.
Or is the running in rugby doomed to only chasing those interminable garryowens?
26 Nov 2012, 10:53 am
@mshiniwami-18: I thought Johan van Graan is the forwards coach, if he handles both attack and forwards portfolios, then what’s Ricardo’s role?
26 Nov 2012, 10:55 am
More and more hard-core supporters are loosing interest in watching this defence orientated gameplan week after week.
Will be interesting to see how long SARU’s patience lasts next year when we have half-empty stadiums during the home-leg of the Rugby Championship.
26 Nov 2012, 11:01 am
What’s intrigued me, is HMs use of the bench players which has been totally forwards based. He has not used his bench for impact or to change the pace of the game. The only changes he makes is to rest certain forwards after a period of time on the field whilst his backline remains intact.
26 Nov 2012, 11:02 am
Bok attack is so predictable the opposition knows 3 moves ahead what and where. Simple case of making sure defenders in the right areas. If they frustrate us for more than 3 phases, they know possession will be kicked to them
26 Nov 2012, 11:03 am
@mpundulu-20:
the Bulls and now the boks have adopted an American Football style of coaching structure it would appear.
Personally I like. Those critisizing Loubshcer…..please okes, this is south Africa and everything it implies. We will not see an all white coaching setup again.
meyer given the poor timing of his recruitment as well as every other half decent coach being tied up in contract at least chose a bloke he knows and has worked with. his credentials are largely irrelevent given the above mentioned criteria.
I imagine we will see short term backline consultants every so often.
26 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
@Bagel-2: agree fully – he hasnt dominated yet and yes he is a bit frail. If he keeps breaking down he´s not going to be much use.
26 Nov 2012, 11:09 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-24: However, van Graan is not flash as a coach either, Ricardo is not up to scratch at test level but neither is Van Graan. You can’t compare Ian Forster (attack) and Hansen (forwards) to Ricardo as attack and Van Graan as forwards coaches, there’s no comparison, the scopes of inquiry are decidedly different.
26 Nov 2012, 11:12 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-24: Personally I would hold Van Graan more responsible for this utter lack of ideas on attack – as he is the attack coach. We can’t really blame Loubsher as I am honestly not sure what his role really is. McFarland takes care of defense, Van Graan the attack, Koen of the kicking. What does Loubscher do – backline skills coaching?
26 Nov 2012, 11:14 am
@Slumtown-25: Teams have picked up that Goosen is tender, and they will exploit that, I may be proven wrong but I don’t see Goosen having a test career that’s not typified by a long list of injuries.
26 Nov 2012, 11:18 am
@Bokhoring-27: bloody hell is worse than we thought, so van Graan handles both attack and forwards, Ricardo is then effectively a paid intern in the bok coaching set up, straight up fronting by Meyer. At least at the stormers and province, Fleck with very little coaching experience is allowed to play with the backline.
26 Nov 2012, 11:20 am
@mpundulu-28: yeah – think he needs to seriously bulk up if he is to stand much chance.
26 Nov 2012, 11:21 am
Where is Poop face Poppa now? Always raging about our thuggish behaviour – this from fellow countrymen…
The New Zealand Herald’s Gregor Paul said: “Andrew Hore’s act of stupidity will have confirmed in every Northern Hemisphere mind the long-held notion of the All Blacks as perennial thugs.”
long-held notion of the All Blacks as perennial thugs.”
yep you read that right. lol
26 Nov 2012, 11:23 am
@Slumtown-30: That could be the only avenue he has left.
26 Nov 2012, 11:43 am
@Slumtown-30: No he doesn’t.
When he injured his shoulder during the S15 it was due to falling on the ball when scoring a try. Then he injured his knee ligaments (I think) in the test.
None of these injuries were due to lack of bulk.
If anything, he needs to work on his tackling technique. As long as the opposition feels it is weak, they will continue to target his channel.
26 Nov 2012, 11:53 am
@DumbSupporter-33: The central issue is that he is now officially tenderised, and at test level it’s not a good thing, ask Richard Kahui.
26 Nov 2012, 12:11 pm
The tone has changed. Keo has been slagging HM off all season and now he is trying to come across as a quiet voice of reason in the background.
The fact is that anybody with a brain could see that the Boks would have a quiet first year under HM. In fact HM has done tremendously well considering what went before him. A test side isn’t simply selected and turned into number one overnight. Keo and his cronies had far higher expectations than what were reasonable and this despite posting an article calling for calm at the start of the season.
Next year will be a breakthrough season for this young bok team and all the naysayers are starting to realise it and they will be claiming next year that they never lost the faith.
The Boks have never been a high scoring team. We do get the occassional big scoring win but by and large we have always played a forwards dominated game designed at subduing opponents.
Not a lot has to change for things to start going right for this Bok outfit. We just need to grease up the gears and soon we will be untouchable. To have expected that this year would have been moronic.
26 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm
@DEE DAH-35: untouchable? You mean like the All Blacks?! This should be interesting, look forward to watching those springboks, when they arrive………
26 Nov 2012, 12:29 pm
Mark, I don’t quite get the grip here.
“Game Plan Needs More Balance”
The game plan is either in a state of equilibrium or not.
It needs a balance of the various fassets or play or there is a balance between the various fassets of play.
How can something be more balanced?
It could be interpreted that there is a balance, but it needs to be fine tuned.
If that is the case then all the articles posted here since HM took over and from before are a lot of hog wash. Of no significance at all.
Everyone has been advocating for more interplay between front and back. To strike a balance.
Not “more balance”. (Maybe Einstein will be able to explain the concept of “more balance” But since he is not around, maybe don’t use the term)
26 Nov 2012, 12:34 pm
@cuntlyn-37:
More of a balance. Perhaps?
26 Nov 2012, 12:35 pm
We need Eddie Jones Back. Attack Coach needs to be an Ozzie, if we are to achieve anything. We have the natural talent available. We defend very well, but guys need to be taught some “expansive know-how”!!
26 Nov 2012, 12:37 pm
@DEE DAH-35: Unfortunately it rarely happens that when the top 4 teams play one pack can simply pound the other pack into submission. The other teams have forwards just as big and just as tough as ours.
26 Nov 2012, 13:02 pm
This what Clive Woodward said about Saturday’s match.
Owen Farrell openly disagreed with the decision and urged Robshaw to kick for the corner – but Woodward insisted that was no time to question the
captain’s orders.
‘It wasn’t a time for big debate,’ Woodward told the Sportsweek programme on BBC Radio Five live.
‘If he goes for goal, you have to do that kick within about 10 or 15 seconds. So if they’d done it very quickly, it absolutely is the right decision.
‘Also, if I’m brutally honest, I don’t think England really looked like scoring a try against South Africa.
26 Nov 2012, 13:25 pm
@DEE DAH-35:
Dee Dah, most bloggers campaigned for a team like we’ve seen on the EOYT since the very 1st test against England earlier this year.
Granted, players like Bissie, Beast, Bekker, and Frans (not my personal choice) are now injured. Chuck in a fetcher like Brussow or Flo and he would’ve had the support of most rugby lovers from the start. HM is solely responsible for alienating Bok supporters from him with his team selections and it is up to him to win them over again. He is starting to move in that direction but still has a long way to go.
I’m almost sure that HM already has his team for the 1st test next year penned down. Unfortunately for some players, their form in the S15 will mean absolutely nothing.
26 Nov 2012, 13:26 pm
I’m not a coach and I try and learn more from the regular sensible comments here.
How difficult can it be to teach the top 30 rugby players in South Africa to:
Run into space?
Off load in the tackle?
Attack the rucks properly?
Is it not simply part of coaching? Why has it been categorised separately and not interactively? Should dove tail.
I can understand that the forwards need to sort out the front before attack wide. Or kick for safety. But, what’s the point if the situation for attacking wide or from just broken play arise and no one knows how to do it properly? Result just crash the ball or kick it away.
Do you bright sparks agree all the skills sets can be coached in one season. And next season it will be better. And so on and so on. Its an organic process of growth.
26 Nov 2012, 13:30 pm
Well done Faf and the rest of the boys.
Salvaging a draw from the situation that we were in at tea yesterday, must go down as one of the greatest fight backs by a SA cricket team ever.
Now take this psychological momentum into the next test and win it for us.
26 Nov 2012, 13:46 pm
@cuntlyn-43:
You mean to say that the 30 top rugby players in the country DON’T know how to:
“Run into space?
Off load in the tackle?
Attack the rucks properly?”
They should enter the Bok set up knowing all that already imo. I actually believe they do but that it is the game plan of the coach that discourages them from doing all that. I mean, some of them are doing it when they play for their franchises if that is the game plan there.
26 Nov 2012, 14:10 pm
@nama1-45:
Generally it’s a matter of running into half gaps whilst being aware of support runners and carrying the ball in such a way that it can be offloaded. It’s the last two that our players fail at.
26 Nov 2012, 14:33 pm
@David-46:
That also means that the support runner must run lines to be close to the ball carrier in case he needs to off load. (Think Kahui? running on the shoulder of SBW) last year.
Our players do not seem to run the correct lines in support of the ball carrier. The only guys I can think of who do that well is Aplon and Ebersohn (the center) from the Cheetahs. I have an idea that their time with the Bok 7′s team contributed a great deal with their vision and support.
26 Nov 2012, 14:39 pm
@Bouts-6: I agree with your views of Goosen, but Lambie will not make it as an international 12, nor Rhule as a international 13 – wing yes.
26 Nov 2012, 14:51 pm
@nama1-47: Would not actually mind Paul Treu involved as a consultant to the Boks. I know 7′s is very different to the 15 man code, but I still think he could add value as a different point of view
26 Nov 2012, 15:00 pm
It’s a combination then. Not enough/proper/encouraged coaching. And secondly a game plan that stifles the execution of those aspects.
How difficult can it be to rectify it? Choose the right players with those attributes/potential to do it. And encourage it as part of the “horses for courses” HM approach.
Frustrating stuff. Anyway, I suppose HM knows it all. He is supposed to.
26 Nov 2012, 15:03 pm
@nama1-45:
That is what all the debate has been about. The skills sets. I just took a small figure of the top 30 players. The Springboks in other words. They are expected to know most of the finer skills of the game.
26 Nov 2012, 15:12 pm
@Bokhoring-49:
Agree with that.
What can we lose? Our back line play is currently non-existent.
26 Nov 2012, 15:29 pm
@cuntlyn-51:
But my point is that they do possess some of those skills but that the game plan does not allow for them to exhibit it.
Example, JdV we all know has the ability to hit a half gap and off load if there are support runners close to him. The game plan however dictates that he should run straight at the opponents and take a couple to the ground with him which will (hopefully) then leave the opposition with one less defender in the back line.
Game plan nullify the skills our players have.
26 Nov 2012, 15:45 pm
@nama1-47:
Yep, it’s about the support runners as well as the carrier.
26 Nov 2012, 15:48 pm
I said from the start Meyer will be our Henry. The only thing that stands between him and an 8-year tenure is a win in the next World Cup, but he will achieve a higher long term success rate than in any other decade.
The only thing that stood between him and this goal was the first year. I knew it will be a tough one, but he has gone through it not unsuccessful. There are a number of goals Meyer would have had regarding team dynamics which is crucial for a successful tenure:
1. The growth in the number of leaders in the team: I think Louw, Vermeulen, Strauss, de Villiers and Pienaar are now considered to be good leaders within the team.
2. A growth in the experience in the team. To accomplish this he had to pick players consistently and he did.
3. Players playing for each other. It is clearly evident that this team believes in each other and will “die” for each other.
These goals are more important than many other goals we as supporters believe in, but they are characteristics of any successful team.
26 Nov 2012, 15:50 pm
Guys there has been a few ‘homophobic’ comments on Keo lately.
If anyone has anything against *** people, let me know. I am *** and proud.
26 Nov 2012, 15:51 pm
@TASSlES-56: ga.y
See you can’t even type “ga.y” without it being censored!
26 Nov 2012, 15:52 pm
@nama1-53:
I am with you.
In theory ok, because our guys are big. But, only sometimes.
Difficult to fathom this black or white approach. Mix it up, what so difficult? Or does it all of a sudden become a high risk game. Sure, defensive structures will be in disarray if JdJ gets taken out and spill the ball forward on attack. But, learn to restructure quickly. That’s coaching.
26 Nov 2012, 15:54 pm
@cuntlyn-58: shut up. with a name like that, you are clearly a homophobe!
We’re here and we’re *****. Deal with it!
26 Nov 2012, 15:54 pm
@TASSlES-59: * quee.r
26 Nov 2012, 15:56 pm
@TASSlES-59:
Im perplexed. Why did you attack me? And what makes you think I am a homophobe?
26 Nov 2012, 15:57 pm
Anyway, its probably your bad Tassenberg or Oom Tas hangover kicking in.
26 Nov 2012, 16:01 pm
@cuntlyn-61: You hate people like me because we are attracted to men. Small minded way of thinking.
26 Nov 2012, 16:05 pm
I love you my darling. Ok, can we move on and talk about rugby now. (and you right, maybe I should change my keo name)
Happy now?
26 Nov 2012, 16:07 pm
@cuntlyn-61:
Probably a nic thief. The real Tassies usually blogs at night.
My guess is that it is the same guy who blogged under Slumtown’s name last week.
26 Nov 2012, 16:07 pm
@TASSlES-63: There is no way this farken outright cowardlytwat is Tassies…
Give yourself a doodpoes, fckface…
26 Nov 2012, 16:12 pm
Guys, I agree the keo name is probably offensive. I thought it was funny.
Anyway, I read about Tassies and I think he said he lives close to Newlands and he went to watch the match at Hout Bay Yacht Club. I even followed his rugby comments.
I was very surprised about the outburst.
Think you guys are right. I hope the real Tassies will stand up and give this Tassie a real Tassies&Coke klap.
26 Nov 2012, 16:13 pm
HM has a plan. At a guess he is building things in roughly the following order:
1. Character/Culture
2. Squad development
3. Defense
4. Set pieces
5. Territorial game
6. Goal kicking
7. …
…
…
??. Backline attacking moves
If that is about right then what this tour reflects is that we’re at about step 3.5.
26 Nov 2012, 16:16 pm
@funkyzoo-68:
Lets hope next year is Rugby Flair 201 with Prof Meyer
26 Nov 2012, 16:20 pm
@cuntlyn-58:
Yes, I can’t see why we can’t get the balance right.
Running at them hard but also letting the ball move down the back line. I mean really, how many times has JdV passed the ball to his center mate in the past two weeks?
I can only remember two occasions. Last week it led to a mini break by JdJ before he had to go to ground eventually because there were no support runners close to him when he got tackled. On Saturday he had to pass to Hougie because he had no space to work with.
26 Nov 2012, 16:26 pm
@nama1-70:
My point exactly. And it echo’s a the point of a lot of supporters.
HM is certainly aware of it too. Just wonder why? He certainly knows something no one else knows. Or maybe, after all the basic stuff, the fun and games will start next year. I really hope so.
26 Nov 2012, 16:41 pm
and the “Disaster/overhyped player of the year end tour goes to : JDJ” – Heyneke 1 – Cape Town Tik Koppe 0!
26 Nov 2012, 16:43 pm
remember Danie gerber playing next to naas …. naas never passed…. somehow the best rugby player in the world (Doring Danie) found a way to score awesome tries…. guess JDJ not worthy to even drink Danie’s piss …
26 Nov 2012, 16:46 pm
@cuntlyn-71:
Let’s hope.
Won’t be able get through another year with the Boks dishing up the kind of rugby they did this year.
26 Nov 2012, 16:46 pm
@suffer_guy-72: JDJ a “disaster” – Which rock you been hiding under?
Farkoff man…
26 Nov 2012, 16:50 pm
the last 2 tests he played in, he wasn’t even on tv for more than 2 seconds …
26 Nov 2012, 16:50 pm
@suffer_guy-73:
Naas passed more than you think. He certainly did not take up the crash ball.
And Danie did not play next to Naas.
26 Nov 2012, 16:53 pm
doesn’t matter if he played next to naas or not… he was in same backline … naas kicked 99% of the time … danie looked for work and scored from broken play — magic, at the right place at the right time … maybe jdj to look for some work …
26 Nov 2012, 16:56 pm
@suffer_guy-78:
JdJ cerainly ain’t no Danie Gerber, i’l give you that, but I think you are mistaken about Naas.
That’s what everybody thought in those years, but actually the Boks scored a lot of quality backline tries in those days, not only from broken play.
26 Nov 2012, 16:58 pm
@suffer_guy-76: So you judge a player by seconds on TV – ohshyte, there goes any hope of anyone who continually lands up at the bottom of a ruck, middle of a maul to ever be rated highly in the suffer_guy “deep” rugby ratings… And if the ball does not get past the caterpillar of forwards lining up for 2nd, 3rd to 8th phase without variation, as the Boks have played all season long then the poor backs outside SH are all farked… TV cams focus where the ball goes, you see?
Simple…
Or Not?
For you?
26 Nov 2012, 16:59 pm
@DumbSupporter-33: well either wya he has to do something to protect himself a bit more cos at the moment he is breaking down far too easily. You forgot to mention the ankle injury too.
26 Nov 2012, 17:03 pm
@cuntlyn-69:
Bet on it. I am pretty confident that HM builds things from the foundations up.
He has a culture of commitment and intensity in place. He has a good handle on the squad options. He has built a very solid defensive platform. He has lineouts working, scrums getting better, place kicks looking better, etc.
I am not sure that fancy pants running rugby is the next priority, although it is clearly a priority in due course. My expectation is that he is most concerned about territorial play. We played far too much of the tour in our own half. So my guess is that the most important thing for the June tests, beyond evolving the things that are already going well, is to focus on accuracy in touch kicks, kick/chase etc.
Much as we would all like an instant transformation to Total Rugby I believe the key is to build patiently from the foundations to the roof, and then add finishing touches. I don’t know HM, but from what I can see if he is allowed to finish the project we’re going to be increasingly happy with his achievements.
Methodically building a great team takes time.
26 Nov 2012, 17:03 pm
@TASSlES-56: OMFG – and to think ive been casually bantering away about rugby to you. If only i´d known…
lol just kidding mate. I dont give a flying hoot what people´s gender preference is – surely its their choice and business? The ones making dispariging comments are just cavemen.
26 Nov 2012, 17:08 pm
Just after the fake Tassies is exposed as that, our dear old Suffer_Guy emerges.
26 Nov 2012, 17:14 pm
@funkyzoo-82:
Don’t you think we can also win the territory game by keeping the ball in hand? Do you only win the territory game with kicks?
26 Nov 2012, 17:14 pm
@Slumtown-83: PISS OFF!!!! I never wrote this. Someone has stolen my nickname and is posting on my behalf!!
26 Nov 2012, 17:29 pm
@SIumtown-86:
Your stalker at it again?
The guy must be mal…having a conversation with himself as Tassies and Slumtown.
Sybil…was that the name of that movie?
26 Nov 2012, 17:50 pm
Dissociative identity disorder (DID) facts
Dissociative identity disorder (DID), formerly called multiple personality disorder, is an illness that is characterized by the presence of at least two clear personality states, called alters, which may have different reactions, emotions, and body functioning.
DID is diagnosed nine times more often in females than in males.
A history of severe abuse is thought to be associated with DID.
DID has been portrayed in the media in productions like The Three Faces of Eve and Sybil.
People with DID may have trouble keeping a job and maintaining relationships and are at risk for engaging in drug and alcohol abuse as well as hurting themselves and others.
26 Nov 2012, 17:56 pm
@TASSlES-56:
@TASSlES-59:
@suffer_guy-72:
@Slumtown-83:
Take heed of post 88 and get help.
26 Nov 2012, 18:08 pm
Well let’s hope the returning big names like Bismaak, Beast, schalk, Spies, F Steyn, Habana, Bekker, Goosen can all change things around next year!
26 Nov 2012, 18:17 pm
Nic stealing is so last century
26 Nov 2012, 18:21 pm
I think the forwards had a good game on Saturday.Again the back line was poor.The main reason for that was Ruan Pienaar.He takes to long to decide what he wants to do with the ball,placing tremendous pressure on the next receiver as the defences are ready to deal with the ball carrier.His job is to be the link and not the decision maker.As the ball comes out of the ruck he should be passing the ball immediately or taking a run if the space is there.Nick Groom is a perfect example.When duvanage was in the wp team, wp couldnt buy a try .but as soon as the nippy and quick scrum half Nick Groom replaced him ,the backline started to fire.
Ruan Pienaars up and unders were again poor,giving possession away to England.I was at the game against Scotland last week and the Scottish press gave him a rating of 7 for the game,which I thought was very generous.Put a nippy ,quick passing scrum half in place of Pienaar and there will be at least a few precious seconds given to the backline to create space.
Any team given time to organize their defence whilst going backwards are going to be difficult to get through.He assists them in their task.
26 Nov 2012, 18:29 pm
@nama1-53: I think you touch on the right point. Heyneke’s strategy is about brute physicality and a high degree of some basic skills execution (note the some). Personal creativity and x-factor does not come into his approach. His approach is a sledgehammer, and as such I’m afraid the style we play will always reflect that, regardless of the players he selects.
Ironically I believe the more skilled and less physical players suffer the most/look the worst because of this and I think someone like Gio Aplon would suffer in his team
26 Nov 2012, 18:31 pm
@chriscross-92: yeah, we really miss a quick passing, snipey scrumhalf. Unfortunately Heyneke is trying to emulate FDP, ala kick and chase, so I think most scrummies will struggle, unless they are FDP of course
26 Nov 2012, 18:32 pm
@nama1-70:
If JdV crashes up and take a few opposition players out, but ball does not come out quickly. Then we back at square one. By the time ball out, defence in position again.
26 Nov 2012, 18:34 pm
@nama1-74:
Man, how do we wish!
26 Nov 2012, 18:39 pm
@funkyzoo-68: Agree, what worries me is that he seems very much to believe you will win based on just that, where the ABs and Wallabies don’t always require forward dominance to win. My worry is that his priorities for success are very much:
1. Gain line efficiency
2. Field position
3. Set piece
4. Defense, as in stop the player moving forward and turnovers
Where the ABs probably have similar but also:
1. Line breaks and meters gained
2. Ball retention and distribution
3. Defense as in slow down plat or turnovers
Our players seem to be practising different skills and actually look worse than our top S15 or CC teams
26 Nov 2012, 18:48 pm
@funkyzoo-82:
Your points make sense and despite all our emotional outbursts here, HM is certainly working methodically.
But, cant you coach a few things at once. I.e. backline moves and pin point kicking? Over simplifying, but just to illustrate the point.
I can understand that defence is a mind set and should be drilled in. The forwards are drilled well now and the team defends well. Would be great if he speeds up the rest.
26 Nov 2012, 19:06 pm
I don’t buy this Meyer culture schmulture trip
Meyer has screwed up massively through his first year and the only reason he came out of it with some credibility is because he has some players in the squad who pull together in spite of his fckup decisions and poor management.
Meyer made some good calls mostly around the following players
JdV as captain was his saving grace from day one.. any other captain like for instance Pierre Schmidt or even Matfield or FdP and Meyer would have been a dismal failure this year.
Secondly by default he dropped Potgieter and Spies and Kankowski and Daniel and introduced Louw and Vermeulen into the loose trio..
That alone is what steadied his ship in the forwards.. imagine Meyer would have gone on EOYT with the likes of Spies, Kankowski, Potgieter, Daniel and Coetsee as his trio.. the same way he started the year off.. he would have collapsed into a heap of dismal ash.
He also eventually saw his folly and dropped Morne Steyn.. though he stuck with Kirchner and reluctantly bowed to pressure to play JdJ ahead of his first choice Taute at 13. His sticking with Pienaar has been an abject fault in his game plan but the character shown by others covered over that flaw in his team make up.
JdV, Louw, Vermeulen, Etsebeth, Strauss, Alberts and JPP have been carrying the show… nearly the entire Blue Bulls byeenkoms have fallen by the wayside..
if it weren’t for the staunch support and character shown by the WP contingent led by JdV in his squad.. Meyer would never have gotten through his first year unscathed.. and that’s a fact
26 Nov 2012, 20:34 pm
To think that faf had to sit on the side for quota duminy…. Same way quota zane and jdj are keeping better players out…. Quotas se moer
26 Nov 2012, 20:34 pm
Talking of defense against Northern Hemisphere teams, who aren’t renowned for sophisticated attacking approaches, I’m not convinced that the boks can definitively state that their defensive strategy is entirely unyielding. It needs to be tested against the ABs stretch and counter attack, and then we will all know what the boks defense is about. Then there’s a question of the Boks feeble attack, an aggregate inability to construct a try that evidences ball in hand know-how. Watching England vs the boks was an utter snore fest, it was actually deplorable, PDV had better attacking strategies.
26 Nov 2012, 20:46 pm
@nama1-87: Nama.Hi.That was the name.SybilWoman with multiple identities like our cyber associate.
26 Nov 2012, 20:57 pm
Boks never looked like losing? Really keo, must have watched a different game to me!
26 Nov 2012, 22:47 pm
@87 nama1 – you actually talking to the nick thief, notice the capital I in his nickname.
26 Nov 2012, 22:59 pm
More balance. Correct. Well done keo.
We also need more points than the opposition at the end of every game.
27 Nov 2012, 01:17 am
In case anyone still thinks the Alberts try against England was illegal (nama that means you) – have a read:
http://www.rugby365.com/article/50865-law-discussion-alberts-s-try
27 Nov 2012, 04:49 am
We need a fast passing halfback
27 Nov 2012, 07:22 am
I believe that, Piet van Zyl and Goosen (both from the Cheetahs) will go a long way at solving this problem. For me, van Zyl is the fastest and cleaning passing scrummie in the country and has a very good boot to go aswell. They have grown up together and know each others play inside and out.
They are both young and inexperienced but I believe they have what it takes at Test level.
Also with so many experienced players returning next year we will only get better.
They way we manage your players leading up to the next World Cup is the most important thing. Key players need proper rest periods.
27 Nov 2012, 07:30 am
@iceman-108:
Hopefully Naka don’t pick Tewis ahead of Piet then…
27 Nov 2012, 09:48 am
@SIumtown-86: You sir are being a real twat by constantly using my nickname. Again people not me.
27 Nov 2012, 09:49 am
@nama1-87: yeah him again – it amazes me how much time people have on their hands to impersonate other people on top of commenting here. Someone has a very veyr big psychological problem. Well spotted Nama.
27 Nov 2012, 10:24 am
@John1976-104:
I see that now.
Thanks
27 Nov 2012, 10:35 am
Let us just accept the fact that the successful Bok sides have won games with stingy defence, one needs only to look at our WC winning teams in 95 and 07. To think that the Boks could play the attacking style of the AB’s is laughable. Their frontrowers have better ball skills than our back’s and their decision making from broken play is streets ahead. Not to blame the coach or the system here, this is evident in all levels of our rugby. We can still be successful, but it isn’t ever gonna be pretty.
27 Nov 2012, 11:07 am
@DumpsterDiver-113:
Explain the successful Bok side under Mallet then. They ran with the ball if I’m not mistaken.
This was not a tournament. This was 12 regular test matches. Sure, one can accept that your tactics will change slightly when you play in a tournament like the RWC.
Even the AB did not play their regular brand of rugby in the RWC last year especially in the knock out stages.
27 Nov 2012, 13:00 pm
@suffer_guy-100:
“To think that faf had to sit on the side for quota duminy”
Seriously? JP was in great form this year, you must mean quota Jacques Rudolph kept Faf out of the team.
11 Dec 2012, 19:33 pm
i belive Heyneke Meyer needs 2 get Nick Mallet as an advisor on a fulltime basis,maybe bradon Venter baby boks backline coach gets promoted to the springboks with ricardo redeployed to the baby boks venter is very very exprienced with saracens,western province..or todd frm nz….i also belive that john mitchell should be the specialist attack coach….jaco van graan can jst focus on the forwards s…trictly…scrum coach is fine the bok scrumminging has been soild and almost as dominant as the world cup winning pack….kicking coach needs to be changed i would bring
braam van straten back frm the wallabies as our kicking coach or another choice could be naas botha his very exprienced played for the dallas cowboys..lol anyway his been with the boks before and knows the culture…..with this changes and generals of intellectual thought when it comes to rugby the boks would not be stopped..i also belive we should get a skill consultant from aussie rugby league or overseas to help with our offloading which if you guys remember improved when we ropped in eddie jones who would actually be my first choice before brandon venter but knw is coach of japan…..I also belive siya kolisi should move back to playing number 8 this is role his played through out his school carreer at grey high and age group rugby this will increase his chances of playing more for the boks his got the pace,power,skill,brilliant defence,good on the ground…i belive he could be the greatest number 8 in bok history if give a chance like a jerry collins type player…..i would also like to plead with heyneke to give luke watson a look in next year class is forever and his still a brilliant player and will be playing super rugby and has matured….(comments by Mojo)
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