Hore set for hefty ban
26 Nov 2012
New Zealand hooker Andrew Hore has been cited for an off-the-ball incident which subsequently hospitalised Wales lock Bradley Davies.
Hore hit Davies off the ball during the initial stages of last Saturday’s Test in Cardiff. The incident was missed by matchday officials, but Hore has now been cited and looks likely to receive a lengthy suspension.
The time and date of the hearing, before the IRB’s appointed independent judicial officer, have yet to be fixed.
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen expects the hooker to be sidelined for some time. Hansen did not say as much, but has already called for a replacement ahead of the coming Test against England.
Dane Coles is expected to start at Twickenham.
30,252 Comments
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26 Nov 2012, 13:51 pm
Didn’t a New Zealand soccer player break the jaw of a referee earlier this year after he was sent off?
26 Nov 2012, 13:52 pm
@Dawn-550:
Indeed.
Not even decent actors could save that piece-of-sh*t script; with Taylor “Llama” Lautner in the main role, it managed to truly plumb the depths of decrepitude.
26 Nov 2012, 13:53 pm
@Dawn-550: 2012?
26 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
@WP-Forever-552:
Yaysus
Those tween twihards drive me to commit murder
26 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
@WP-Forever-552: Oh.
26 Nov 2012, 13:54 pm
@WP-Forever-546:
wow, reading through some of the welsh/uk comments it amazes me how much it resonates with things said here on keo.
for example:
Stuckinlondon
8:48 PM on 25/11/2012
Show Details
Wonder how short his ban will be or will he be cleared on the grounds of him being an All Black? Maybe the best punishment would be to have to try it again only this time from the front with Bradley able to see it coming. He wouldn’t have the guts to front up though.
But seriously, the punishment whatever it is, is going to be too late for the game it affected and NZ march on undefeated and apparently unashamed. With three officials on the pitch and one in the video box, it must be possible to punish these things more immediately and more apropriately to the games they affect.
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oldscrumhalf
9:02 PM on 25/11/2012
f course this violence should be dealt with within the match itself..then there is a real deterrent to dirty play. The NZ’s have always gambled they will not be caught on camera: as they seem not to have been when JR was booted and RJ was gouged plus no doubt others…the AJ incident seems odd as well..wonder if the many camera angles which must exist would throw any light on that. It seems all too convenient that the positions we were shallow in ended with players off within a couple of minutes of the start…we must stamp (sic) this behaviour out
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yorkshiretaff
9:04 PM on 25/11/201
Neither referee Joubert or his assistants appeared to see much at all on saturday. Nonu lucky to get away with stamping on a couple of occasions aswell, reffing of this poor standard should not be allowed to spoil what could have been a decent game.
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tonyfard
9:18 PM on 25/11/2012
I cannot believe that Bradley Davies has not been cited for getting in the way of Andrew H ore’s arm as he was about to enter a ruck – outrageous!
Typical of us – we get away with murder!
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stockmundo
9:27 PM on 25/11/2012
Allegedly striking???? I would have been put away for a week or so for asault if i had done the same thing on a saturday night out. New zealand have always been cheating and getting away with it. Remember O’Driscoll being spear tackled by Nonu and Umanga. Got away with it then and always will.
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WelshOzis
1:22 PM on 25/11/2012
Don’t forget though Joubert b*** NZ every time he refs them. He also tends to favour the southern hemisphere sides. Remember the WC final – he pretty much gifted the final to NZ – it was a disgrace. He also gave some very suspect penalties for Oz against us on the Summer tour as well which pretty much gifted the Ozzies the win. Joubert is a gutless wonder.
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TYPICAL KIWI SOUNDING RESPONSE:
rugbyballs
11:31 PM on 25/11/2012
Rugby supporters world wide would condem the Andrew H’s cheap shot. He will pay the price. It is not the first cheap shot in rugby. Every nation has had moments when otherwise good players and good people do stupid things. But, Welsh rugby people, stop blaming the referee, the southern hemisphere and everything else for the losses the Welsh have suffered in recent times. I recommend you look inwards for the reasons for sub-standard rugby.
26 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
@Taahirah-553:
No man
Some Taylor Lautner movie where they abducted him
If I’d abducted him I would’ve killed him after 5 minutes
26 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-549: I haven’t seen the video in a while but I thought they dropped him rather than drove him into the ground. And it wasn’t exactly off the ball, it was a ruck that moved on. Not condoning it at all, just saying it’s not much different to the Tipoki incident where the ball had also gone. The IRB wasn’t as tough on spear tackles back then, until the Lions media machine fired up. Guess the Maori need to work on their publicity/witch-hunting skills.
The clearest evidence to me that it was a witch hunt was the focus on Umaga, who to me was fairly innocent. It was Mealamu that upset the balance by joining in. He was the one who should have been banned and vilified, but it was Umaga who was the captain and opposite number so he was attacked by the media
26 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
@Dawn-554: I take it you werent lucky enough to get your hands on some Breaking Dawn:Part 2 tickets?
26 Nov 2012, 13:55 pm
I was too scared to read the Wales comments in case they were in Welsh
26 Nov 2012, 13:56 pm
@Taahirah-559: hehehe.
Its funny cause you are Dawn.
26 Nov 2012, 13:56 pm
@Taahirah-559:
No, thank dog.
26 Nov 2012, 13:57 pm
Malbork
6:20 AM on 26/11/2012
The citing is all well and good but too little too late! It is totally infuriating that Wales lost a WC final place for an unpremeditated tackle while the AB’s appear to be the untouchables. That which annoy’s fans to distraction is the absolute inconsistency of such moments. As I said yesterday, while Bradley Davies is being attended to there is plenty of time for the referee to inquire from the video ref what caused such an injury and take the necessary action. Having said that, how on earth no official saw the incident that was so close to the action escapes me.
26 Nov 2012, 13:59 pm
Seems like I stopped the war
26 Nov 2012, 14:01 pm
Pops gone Hurricane vanished like mist before the rising sun
26 Nov 2012, 14:02 pm
@WP-Forever-547:
I know you as a very level headed and objective person and I’m sure you are one who’ll condemn both incidents.
Sadly, I can’t say the same for others who hailed Geldenhuys as some kind of her a few months ago but are now up in arms about the Hore incident.
Dirty play is dirty play, no matter who the culprit is.
26 Nov 2012, 14:03 pm
@nama1-566:
Absolutely.
Bakkies Botha was, at times, an absolute bloody disgrace to the Springbok jersey.
I cannot condone dirty play, especially from South Africans.
26 Nov 2012, 14:03 pm
@Dawn-565: It was the Twilight references.
26 Nov 2012, 14:04 pm
Well, this thread has gone like I thought it would. High and mighty Kiwi mafia trying to deflect this by bringing up old Bok transgressions (huh?) and avoiding the topic at all costs.
It confirms everything we thought and know about the ABs and their fans. They are arrogant and consider themselves above the law. Its even worse now that they are “world champions” – Thompson feels its within his jurisdiction to put his boot on a player’s head when he is on the wrong side of a ruck, yet Sir McCheat must NOT be touched – even though he lies on the wrong side all day.
So when McCheat is SITTING on his @rse still playing the ball, and catches a forearm for his trouble, it is outrage.
But when an AB uses his boot on a man’s head, he gets 1 week?
The Bok coach apologised publicly to McCaw for the forearm, but how does the AB handle it? Was there an apology for the boot on head?
An apology for Hore’s cowardly attack?
So if we want to talk historical thuggery, should we start with the Ken Catchpole story?
Colin Meads (revered in NZ) deliberately picked up one of the scrumhalf’s legs while he was under a ruck and wrenched it “tearing his hamstring off the bone, and severely rupturing his groin muscles” ending Catchpole’s career.
So Poppa et al. please do not attempt to accuse anyone of thuggery
26 Nov 2012, 14:05 pm
Oh, the usual suspects wailing and bleating ad nauseum. Groundhog day.
26 Nov 2012, 14:06 pm
@nama1-566: What did Geldenhuys do?
@WP-Forever-567: Which times was Bakkies a disgrace?
The time I can remember being very disappointed in him was when he smashed into Aplon in a Super Rugby game
26 Nov 2012, 14:06 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-556: I read them too, I guess it’s not just us then.
26 Nov 2012, 14:06 pm
@Nils-570: Yeah it is mate – your countrymen doing the bleating
26 Nov 2012, 14:07 pm
@gonzo-558:
no gonzo, he was driven rather than dropped, absolutely.
mealamu especially is clearly seen following through with the action and only umaga’s actions to a lesser extent can be argued either way as to where he (umaga) had dropped or driven him.
whether umaga was intent on driving him or was perhaps rather trying to desist and just drop him or maybe even seeking to prevent it and catch or protect him from falling we’ll never know.
it is clear that his arms follow through with the motion.
26 Nov 2012, 14:07 pm
@gonzo-558:
and just to be clear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTVhckB3juk
26 Nov 2012, 14:08 pm
@Nils-570: Bill Murray?
26 Nov 2012, 14:09 pm
Oh, this makes me laugh: “Hansen insists: ‘We are not thugs’” – ummmm…. yes you are
“If there is an incident and if you’ve done it, you’ve done it. You’ve got to take accountability, ownership and responsibility for it,” – ok doesnt sound too bad… then:
“But what are the mitigating circumstances around that?” – HAHAHAHAHA
OMG – never the poor old ABs is it?
26 Nov 2012, 14:09 pm
In other news.
Congratulations to the Pretoria Special Task Force unit for foiling an armed robbery attempt by 16 well-armed robbers on Saturday evening.
The STF engaged the robbers armed with assault rifles after being fired upon, killing seven and arresting nine others without taking any fatalities themselves.
The members of the STF operate under extremely difficult circumstances and are horribly treated by the SAPS management. 27 out of 35 members from the Pretoria STF have applied for transfers, and ten members from the Durban STF have also applied to be allowed to leave.
These men – despite their high level of skills – are paid very little and one cannot blame them for seeking employment in the private sector and abroad. The government and SAPS management urgently need to take wage demands for these members seriously.
26 Nov 2012, 14:10 pm
@nama1-566: Exactly. Anyone who drools about geldenhuyses, bakkieses and other animals at their filthy work has no right to even bleat about Hore.
Meanwhile every sane rugby supporter condemns every act of thuggery be it done by the AB or Bokke or whoever.
26 Nov 2012, 14:10 pm
@Dawn-550: What was that?
26 Nov 2012, 14:10 pm
@bokfan1-571:
The cowardly clean-out on Aplon, and also the cowardly headbutt on Jimmy Cowan.
26 Nov 2012, 14:10 pm
who hailed Geldenhuys as some kind of her = who hailed Geldenhuys as some kind of HERO
26 Nov 2012, 14:12 pm
@Taahirah-576: Yes, sir. The movie that aptly describes what’s going on here.
26 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-575: That is UNBELIEVABLE! Ive never seen that footage before.
Im amazed they didnt break his neck!
Im lost for words that there was no punishment or responsibility taken for that incident.
26 Nov 2012, 14:13 pm
@stormersboy-572:
yip
they leave a bitter taste wherever they go the world over.
and the sad thing is that i honestly believe its not necessary for them to stoop so low. with the talent and skill they have they should be playing a game we can all admire, respect and congratulate.
they ruin rugby for us all and so easily and often bring it into disrepute.
26 Nov 2012, 14:15 pm
Still nothing can take the gloss off a magnificent draw from our boys.
Not even the yapping kiwis.
26 Nov 2012, 14:18 pm
@Nils-583: Yeah, I know. The repetitiveness of it all is insane, though you’d have to admirethose who partake for the intensity of their stubbornness.
They dont quit.
Ever.
26 Nov 2012, 14:18 pm
@WP-Forever-578:
Seals?
26 Nov 2012, 14:19 pm
@bokfan1-571:
Broke Andy Dalton’s jaw with a stiff arm from behind in 1986. Dalton was captain of the NZ Cavaliers then. That cowardly act ended Dalton’s tour.
26 Nov 2012, 14:19 pm
@katman-580:
Abducted
26 Nov 2012, 14:20 pm
Has anybody watched the highlights package from the Bokke game, I can’t find it anywhere on the net?
26 Nov 2012, 14:20 pm
@WP-Forever-581: The action of the headbutt was very bad, but I feel a bit different about the situation as a whole.
Bakkies had charged down a kick and was going for the ball, when Cowan in full view of the ref, grabs his jersey and slows him down. THAT is cheating and against the rules. Cowan was not blown up.
I dont know if you have ever played rugby, but that happening is enough to P!SS anyone off on the field.
If you look for kak on the field, dont cry when it finds you.
Smit pushes Thorne’s head, Thorne loses his temper
Estebeth put his hand in Youngs’ face, he gets mobbed by 5 Eng players
Mike Philips meses with Frans Steyn, he gets ejected by Brussow
McCaw lies on the wrong side all day, playing the ball on the ground, the ref does not penalise him, so the French discipline him themselves, or Greyling says howzit with his forearm.
and so on. Those kinds of situations are very different to what Hore has done.
Labuschagne late tackling Wilkinson in 2003 was similar to Hore’s action and deserved a heavy punishment.
And ja – Bakkies late cleaning of Aplon was disgraceful
26 Nov 2012, 14:21 pm
@bokfan1-584:
yip, agreed.
very dangerous indeed and makes it clearly obvious why his shoulder was broken.
for me the equally saddest part of that incident is the fact the nz sports broadcaster chose to hide/deny/destroy any available footage of the incident and it was left to an ameture camera filmaker to capture and record the incident for posterity.
26 Nov 2012, 14:22 pm
@nama1-589: Wish that is NOT cool. Is there any footage of it?
26 Nov 2012, 14:23 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-593: Of course they hide it and deny it! You cant be saddened by that – its to be expected my china!
Its like being saddened by a piece of dogpoo smelling like dogpoo – it can only do what is in its nature.
When Bakkies’ headbutted Cowan it was played all over the stadium to alert the ref. But they failed to show Cowan pulling on Bakkie’s jersey
26 Nov 2012, 14:24 pm
@NZINCHINA-591:
Why?
26 Nov 2012, 14:24 pm
wow, these welsh/uk comments are like a keo spinoff up north:
Walt
8:27 AM on 26/11/2012
I always view the prospect of playing New Zealand with very little enthusiasm, you kind of know there will be controversy, you know the ref will nurse the All Blacks through the game and ignore their skullduggery and assautls. Warren gatland must know that traditionally the AB’s have enjoyed protected status and he will not open his mouth to question this far from level playing field.
26 Nov 2012, 14:25 pm
On 2 December 1972 the All Blacks defeated Wales 16-19 in front of a crowd of 52,000 at Cardiff Arms Park, with Keith Murdoch, the Kiwi prop scoring the match-winning try.
That night, the All Blacks were celebrating their win in the Angel Hotel on Castle Street; when the bar closed, Murdoch went searching for more beers in the kitchen, only to be confronted by security guard Peter Grant; Murdoch proceeded to punch Grant to the ground after he attempted to restrain him after he had first tried to punch one of his own tour officials.
After initially only disciplining Murdoch, All Blacks manager Ernie Todd two days later decided to send him home “for his own good”, claiming “it was not an easy decision to make”.
Roll forward almost 40 years, to 24 November 2012, and witness another Dunedinite, Andrew Hore – also a member of the front row and a farmer – causing an outrage by punching a Welshman, this time Welsh lock Bradley Davies.
26 Nov 2012, 14:25 pm
@WP-Forever-578:
hear-hear
@gunther-586:
A fight back to remember.
Brilliant result for us.
26 Nov 2012, 14:29 pm
“CAROLYN HITT: WHY SPOIL BEAUTIFUL RUGBY WITH SUCH UGLY TACTICS?
For a country that plays such beautiful rugby it is a mystery why New Zealand have to resort to the ugly tactic that saw Bradley Davies leave the field and head for hospital within two minutes of kick off.
We expect black magic from this great rugby nation but we got the dark arts from Andrew Hore as the hooker picked off the Welsh lock with a short arm smash from behind.
With the second row cupboard already bare, Hore knew where to hurt Wales too, as well as a quite literally stunned Bradley.
Neither the referee Craig Joubert nor his assistants managed to spot the incident in real time but as Eddie Butler said from the commentary box: “It was so far off the ball that the touch judge probably missed it by quite some way.”
No-one missed it on the replay. When it was shown on the big screen 74,000 fans gave a verbal red card.
It seems madness that the TMO cannot be used in these cheap shot situations. The video ref was called into action later in the game to rule on a try that had obviously been scored yet has no part to play in safeguarding the values of the game and the wellbeing of its players.
Wales has had enough bad luck this autumn with accidental injury without suffering deliberate assault. Already without 10 injured players ahead of the match, Saturday added prop Aaron Jarvis (knee), centre Jamie Roberts (hip) and flanker Ryan Jones (slight concussion) to the roll-call of wounded.
For fans desperate for a pride-restoring performance against the World Champions, some of the Welsh decision-making proved painful. With apologies to Oscar Wilde, to spurn one penalty goal kick early doors may be regarded as misfortune, to spurn another two by failing to find touch looks like carelessness.
Wales really took the game to New Zealand in the opening stages and while a desire to go for a possible seven rather than a more probable three points through the sticks reflects an admirable swagger, cocking it up three times was unacceptable.
England’s aversion to taking the points may have cost them the Australia game last week while Ireland made a similar mistake against Wales in the World Cup quarter finals.
So there was a certain irony that the team of expansive endeavour played it safe as Dan Carter’s more than able deputy Aaron Cruden patiently built up the nine point cushion Wales could have matched before New Zealand exploded into life.
Israel Dagg provided the spark, escaping successive red clutches in his own half to send Julian Savea dashing downfield before spreading it to the wings for flanker Messam to cross the line.
As Wales trailed 16-0 on the half hour Jonathan Davies attempted to get his side back into the game with a fabulous break, after foxing the All Black defence with some muscular jinking. He fed fellow Scarlet Liam Williams but the roar of the crowd turned into a groan as Paul James knocked on and another chance went begging.
Groans morphed into out and out moaning as the lifeline of a follow-up penalty was killed when Priestland’s touchfinder went dead once more.
There was a sense that nothing would go right for Wales on Saturday. However hard they tried, they seemed cursed into a reverse Midas mode, doomed by a fumble of the final pass on a promising break or by some of the more dubious decisions of Mr Joubert. Sam Warburton, for example, was penalised for not releasing when he hadn’t even made the tackle.
And by the time Tony Woodcock scored the simplest of strollover tries from a five metre lineout to take the All Black score to 23-0 just before the break, the prospect of another 40 minutes of New Zealand brilliance seemed as agonising as poor Aaron Jarvis’s twisted knee.
But to the credit of Gatland’s battlers they kept up the fight and managed to draw the second half. It says everything about Wales’s autumn campaign that Scott Williams’s 56th minute try was greeted with as much euphoria as the Grand Slam final whistle.
Perhaps it was the novelty value of a score created from a lineout that involved the entire Welsh team. A grateful chorus of Bread of Heaven spread through the Millennium stands for the first time since March.
Ten minutes later another consolation arrived in the form of Alex Cuthbert’s well-worked try. Again the response was one of desperate rapture. Two crumbs of comfort that will have to be built into something more substantial before next Saturday. Wales can’t afford to give Australia victory on a plate as the consequences for their World Cup rankings will be truly unpalatable.
As for the aftermath of Andrew Hore’s flooring of Bradley Davies it’s now up to the citing officer to underline why such unsavoury play has left a nasty taste as we welcomed a team that has always enjoyed the respect and friendship of the Welsh people.”
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