Hore set for hefty ban
26 Nov 2012
New Zealand hooker Andrew Hore has been cited for an off-the-ball incident which subsequently hospitalised Wales lock Bradley Davies.
Hore hit Davies off the ball during the initial stages of last Saturday’s Test in Cardiff. The incident was missed by matchday officials, but Hore has now been cited and looks likely to receive a lengthy suspension.
The time and date of the hearing, before the IRB’s appointed independent judicial officer, have yet to be fixed.
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen expects the hooker to be sidelined for some time. Hansen did not say as much, but has already called for a replacement ahead of the coming Test against England.
Dane Coles is expected to start at Twickenham.
30,305 Comments
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3 Dec 2012, 20:12 pm
@willievz-7346:
Who are you comparing him to?
3 Dec 2012, 20:14 pm
@willievz-7350:
It seems as if it was picked in October 2010.
From their site:
“We have taken great care in choosing the jury for the world XI. All the cricketers on the panel have been captains, and are thus well-versed in the business of selecting teams. Also, they have either played alongside, or watched first-hand, a significant number of the nominees.”
3 Dec 2012, 20:16 pm
willie… i think Viv is the most steely intimidating toughest mother of man to ever play cricket… So tough he makes everyone else look like like they play with dolls in the sandpit
3 Dec 2012, 20:17 pm
@David-7351: Not a comparison per se, but it makes for mediocre reading next to Ponting, who also predominantly batted at 3.
Ponting also a superb backward point fielder.
3 Dec 2012, 20:22 pm
Willie have you watched fires of babylon… will give you some idea about Viv
3 Dec 2012, 20:25 pm
If I had to go with a team from the 70′s onwards, this lot would take some beating.
1. Barry Richards
2. Viv Richards
3. Ponting
4. Graeme Pollock
5. Kallis
6. Tendulkar
7. Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Michael Holding
10. Dennis Lilee
11. Dale Steyn
12th man Robin Peterson
3 Dec 2012, 20:32 pm
Kapil Dev another great all rounder
3 Dec 2012, 20:32 pm
@willievz-7354:
Remember that Viv was an opening batsman, a very different role to Ponting.
One thing we forget is that todays batsmen don’t have the problem of playing on uncovered pitches and the bowlers don’t have the same advantage.
Graham Polloks greatest innings was at Trent Bridge in atrocious batting conditions when he scored 125 to rescue SA.
“That South Africa finished with a total of 269 was entirely due to their brilliant 21-year-old left-hander, Graeme Pollock. At the crease for no more than two hours and twenty minutes, he scored 125 out of 160 and hit twenty-one 4′s. This was one of the finest Test displays of all time.”
Wisden.
3 Dec 2012, 20:34 pm
from golf to skittle sticks Kristos Milos this thread is going from ordinary to bad to worse..
time I dropped a veggie bomb in here and rooted it back into some sane reasonable reality.
3 Dec 2012, 20:36 pm
@I am a stormer-7356:
I’d play Hadlee, Khan. Pollock or Proctor instead of Steyn.
3 Dec 2012, 20:39 pm
how about the medium cosmic cycle as determined by the Mayans is nearing crux in less than 20 days time 5125 years are coming to a close and we talking Kapil Dev vs Don Bradman vs Viv Richards vs Graemme Pollock vs Ricky Ponting… how sacrilegious can some goons actually possibly be
3 Dec 2012, 20:39 pm
and strategies were different back then… World Series/One Day cricket and now T20 have impacted on test cricket in terms of pace of the innings etc… Which in turn impacts on player stats…
3 Dec 2012, 20:42 pm
@David-7360:
Steyn’s strike rate in taking wickets is phenomenal. A second team could be just as strong.
3 Dec 2012, 20:45 pm
IAAS… that is a super looking team
3 Dec 2012, 20:46 pm
@skopdiekan-7361:
So what will happen on 21 Dec 2012?
We will play against New Zealand T20 game I think
I have done some research on the topic, because as you say 21 Dec only a few weeks away; but more about that another time …
3 Dec 2012, 20:48 pm
@I am a stormer-7356:
Not a bad team, no place for Lara?
Have to dash mates
3 Dec 2012, 20:50 pm
Cheers Sheriff
3 Dec 2012, 20:50 pm
@David-7358: Didn’t Viv bat predominantly at 3, with Haynes and Greenidge opening?
3 Dec 2012, 20:51 pm
Interesting that most of you pick Warne over Murali.
The stats, on the other hand, show Murali as a greater bowler.
3 Dec 2012, 20:53 pm
@David-7360: Garner, Marshall, McGrath…
3 Dec 2012, 20:54 pm
December 2012 marks the conclusion of a b’ak’tun—a time period in the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar which was used in Central America prior to the arrival of Europeans. Although the Long Count was most likely invented by the Olmec, it has become closely associated with the Maya civilization, whose classic period lasted from 250 to 900 AD. The writing system of the classic Maya has been substantially deciphered, meaning that a corpus of their written and inscribed material has survived from before the European conquest.
Unlike the 52-year Calendar Round still used today among the Maya, the Long Count was linear rather than cyclical, and kept time roughly in units of 20:
There is a strong tradition of “world ages” in Mayan literature, but the record has been distorted, leaving several possibilities open to interpretation. According to the Popol Vuh, a compilation of the creation accounts of the K’iche’ Maya of the Colonial-era highlands, we are living in the fourth world.
In the Maya Long Count, the previous world ended after 13 b’ak’tuns, or roughly 5,125 years. The Long Count’s “zero date” was set at a point in the past marking the end of the third world and the beginning of the current one, which corresponds to 11 August 3114 BC in the proleptic Gregorian calendar. This means that the fourth world will also have reached the end of its 13th b’ak’tun, or Mayan date 13.0.0.0.0, on 21 December 2012.
3 Dec 2012, 20:55 pm
Barry Richards. Hayden, Bradman, Kallis, Viv, Stephen Waugh (c) Gilchrist, Warne, Marshall, Curtly, Wasim.
3 Dec 2012, 20:55 pm
What about Klusner, he was always good in a pinch, a batting / bowling all rounder.
3 Dec 2012, 20:56 pm
@Jeraldjay-7372: It was tough for me to leave out Hayden.
Wasim is a good call as a left-handed option
3 Dec 2012, 20:59 pm
@Treehugger-7373: In an ODI team, certainly.
3 Dec 2012, 20:59 pm
oh well I thought I’d try raise the consciousness here a wee little bitty.. but no way Jose.. these apemen descendants and their wonder women are stuck on measly little googly balls played by grown men in pantaloons thinking it even carries some kind of relevance in the grander scheme of irrelevant things
3 Dec 2012, 21:03 pm
@willievz-7375: some these players I have never seen playing, but now that you mention it, Ja he was mainly a very good ODI player.
3 Dec 2012, 21:04 pm
Willie@7368
You’re correct… as did Kallis… yet you’ve picked Jakes at 6…
that’s what great about this… there’re so many great players to choose… and we’ll make place for our favourites…
and none of us is wrong…!!!
3 Dec 2012, 21:08 pm
@ufo-7378:
Don’t worry bud…I’m the last person that will ever get upset if someone disagrees with me
I’ve had to play Kallis at 6 because cricket has been blessed with an abundance of quality nr3, 4, and 5 batsmen compared to positions 1,2 and 6.
Hence my makeshift opening partnership of Sobers and Tendulkar.
For what its worth – if I had to drop anyone in my team to make space for, say, Viv or Barry, it would be Sachin. IMO – and I don’t mean this disrespectfully – but he played on much more batting friendly wickets than Kallis and Ponting.
3 Dec 2012, 21:09 pm
@Jeraldjay-7372:
Sorry, Sachin has to be in the team so Bradman has to go.
3 Dec 2012, 21:15 pm
Very good point willie… and another example of how stats more often paint with roller brushes instead of drawing with pens…
3 Dec 2012, 21:16 pm
@David-7358:
Viv Richards?
I don’t think so .
3 Dec 2012, 21:21 pm
@willievz-7379:
I think Kallis would be better at opening than Sobers.
He batted a lot at 3 with a fragile opening pair.
Sobers batted further down.
Kallis has a better suited technique.
3 Dec 2012, 21:26 pm
@gunther-7383: I’m happy with that arrangement.
3 Dec 2012, 21:36 pm
I don’t usually cut from wiki… but just to save time… this time…
Sir Isaac Vivian Alexander Richards, KNH, OBE (born 7 March 1952) is a former West Indian cricketer. Known as Viv (or King Viv[1]), Richards was voted one of the five Cricketers of the Century in 2000, by a 100-member panel of experts, along with Sir Donald Bradman, Sir Garfield Sobers, Sir Jack Hobbs and Shane Warne.[2] In February 2002, he was judged by Wisden to have played the best One Day International (ODI) innings of all time.[3] In December 2002, he was chosen by Wisden as the greatest ODI batsman of all time, as well as the third greatest Test batsman of all time, after Sir Don Bradman and Sachin Tendulkar.[4]
3 Dec 2012, 21:37 pm
Richards was a very powerful right-handed batsman with an extremely attacking style, besides being an excellent fielder, and a handy off-spin bowler. He is often regarded as the most devastating batsman that ever played the game by cricketers, journalists, fans and others alike,[5][6] and played his entire career without a helmet, across the 17 years from 1974 till 1991.[5][6][7]
Several prominent personalities including former cricketer and legendary fast bowler and all-rounder Imran Khan and noted writer John Birmingham are of the opinion that Richards was the best ever batsman against genuine fast bowling.[8][9] Many other former players of the game rate him extremely high overall as a batsman. For Barry Richards, Ravi Shastri and Neil Fairbrother, he remains the best batsman they ever witnessed.[10][11][12] Wasim Akram rates Richards the greatest batsman he ever bowled to, ahead of Sunil Gavaskar and Martin Crowe.[13] Martin Crowe, arguably the greatest batsman to have ever emerged from New Zealand, rates Viv Richards as the best batsman he played against along with Greg Chappell. Richards was also Crowe’s cricketing idol along with Donald Bradman, Garfield Sobers and Greg Chappell.[14]
The ICC came out with their rankings for the best batsmen and bowlers in the history of the game for both the longer and shorter versions. The ratings for Test Cricket had Vivian Richards ranked at 6 equal after Sir Donald Bradman, Sir Len Hutton, Sir Jack Hobbs, Ricky Ponting and Peter May.[15] The ODI ratings again had Richards comfortably perched at 1 followed by Zaheer Abbas and Greg Chappell.[16] These rankings were based on the level achieved by the batsmen at their respective peaks.
In 2004, in a poll by ESPN, participated in by 15 of the leading names in cricketing history, Richards was voted the third greatest ever player after Bradman and Sobers, and the second greatest ever batsman after Bradman.[17] He was also voted the greatest cricketer since 1970 by another poll ahead of Ian Botham and Shane Warne.[18] That poll saw both Botham and Warne vote for Richards, and in the opinions of both, Richards is the greatest batsman they ever saw. In 2006, in a study done by a team of ESPN’s Cricinfo magazine, Richards was again chosen the greatest ODI Batsman ever.[19] Former cricketer Derek Pringle also rates Richards to be the best batsman ever in the history of Limited Overs Cricket.[20]
His fearless and aggressive style of play, and relaxed but determined demeanor made him a great crowd favourite and an intimidating prospect for opposition bowlers all over the world. The word “swagger” is frequently used to describe his batting style.[9][21] His batting often completely dominated opposing bowlers.[9][21] He had the ability to drive good-length balls from outside off-stump through midwicket, his trademark shot, and was one of the great exponents of the hook shot.[citation needed]
3 Dec 2012, 21:42 pm
@willievz-7384:
Both awesome players.
I have family connection to Sobers so I’m partial.
3 Dec 2012, 21:44 pm
@gunther-7387:
serious…?
very cool…!
3 Dec 2012, 21:44 pm
@ufo-7386:
A great exponent of the hook.
And he never played with a helmet.
3 Dec 2012, 21:44 pm
Richards could have had a massive average if he wanted.
He would get to a hundred and gift his wicket to a bowler he deemed to have deserved it.
He even played with the edge of the bat on occasions out of boredom.
Once he saw his international future was doomed, he didn’t care to much about scores and averages. When I say scores, he still got his hundred and then let some of his team mates bat as well.
It’s frightening to think what he could have achieved given today’s players opportunities in the International arena
3 Dec 2012, 21:44 pm
@ufo-7386: All good and well.
But…if he was destructive, he was so for only a short while.
My main issue with him is his poor conversion rate of 50s into 100s.
And, secondary to that, he only averages 50.
3 Dec 2012, 21:44 pm
@ufo-7388:
His sister delivered my brother!
3 Dec 2012, 21:45 pm
@nortierd-7390: Barry Richards did that too!
3 Dec 2012, 21:46 pm
@nortierd-7390: Not with you on the “hundreds”.
24 hundreds versus 45 fifties.
Maybe he got to 50 then gifted his wicket. That is not what a team man does.
3 Dec 2012, 21:47 pm
Sorry
I see which one you were talking about.
3 Dec 2012, 21:48 pm
seeing as this is the virtual public lavatory thread I came across this little snippet inadvertently about the state of our wonderful googly ball entranced civilization written from a different perspective by somebody stuck somewhere in the middle of all the garbage… so well.. why not.. let see who gonna catch a gob full of this Caspian version of events…
Death of the West and decline of the East
15.11.2012
By Nicolas Bonnal
We are used since a century to denounce and comment the so-called decline of the West; the great essay of Spengler, unfit for the public of today, was published during the WW1 and it has been quickly fulfilled, Western Europe becoming an American colony and a bureaucratic disaster, both economically and spiritually. Her ageing population is rapidly disappearing and it will be replaced during the next decennials. Nobody should lament this process since Solzhenitsyn observed that the westerners do not know if there are alive! Modern world is a bad dream, said once French philosopher Deleuze, a left-wing genius completely forgotten nowadays in what is left of France (pardon, Hollande…). Statesmen in Europe hate or fear Mr Putin for he is the last statesman with a brain and a soul. This is why there are each year more youngsters fond of him in Western Europe. We will see where this hope will get us to.
Modern civilization is not anymore a civilization: no Shakespeare, no Balzac, no Nabokov; no Mozart, no Wagner, no Shostakovich. Nothing, for culture you have NYT best-selling lists, festivals and multiplex cinemas: post-modernism is about galleries, shopping malls, highways, racial riots, multiculturalism and real estate. The rest is nothing; the rest is about debt, zombie-like existence and tourism. As Nietzsche said in Zarathoustra about the last pope, he doesn’t know that God is dead! We should say now that we don’t know that the westerner is dead. We just have a completely indebted matrix full of sound and stupidity, and sometimes of fury (at least in Libya and Syria); and definitively signifying nothing. It is not for nothing that we are fascinated nowadays in the West by the vampires and the zombies: the vampire sucks the blood (IE the Goldman Sachs elected central bankers suck the money) and the zombie hangs around in malls and subways without any self-consciousness. Welcome to the hollow man, said once TS Eliot.
But that is enough with the West.
Now, I would like to talk about the decline of the East, because despite the growth stuff and the propaganda about emerging countries, I definitely observe a decline in the East. It is very easy to despise France or Italy: old and despicable countries that lost their charisma, as quipped once infamous Donald Rumsfeld… but if we assert what is going on in India ? Or in Vietnam? Or in Japan? I wont’ mention China, even if it becomes the first world power…
When the decline of the West was diagnosed, it was mainly on a spiritual criterion; today it is even economical and demographical. But remember well: in this time it was spiritual. The modern world was materialistic, it was boring, desperate, existentialist, Dadaist, whatever. And where my fellow dissatisfied predecessors would look for an alternative?
In the East.
The East was the land of the gurus, of the traditions; of the last emperors: the East was the land of Tibet, of the I Ching, of the secret societies; the East was the land of Sufism, of yoga, of the wisdom. The East was the real travel of Hermann Hesse and Siddhartha.
All of that, sorry if I exaggerate somewhat, has disappeared. The great wise men of the East have succumbed to business wizards and have submitted to sirens of the degenerate western matrix. Vietnam has forgotten its hydraulic society (read again genius Wittfogel!), and covered her streets with scooters and bikes and masks because of pollution; everybody has forgotten the heroic war against the Yankees, everybody wants to be rich and to live like a Yankee (well, like a John Wayne type Yankee; because one hundred millions Americans endure today poverty and social diseases); India has sold her soul to the class of the vaishya, to the merchants. Only stock exchange, real estate speculation, destruction of slums, and TV commercials are now the ordinary of the Mahatma’s great nation or of heirs of the Maharshi . Think now of broke and impoverished Japan, of his junkies and hippies, of his degenerate way of life, think of the end of samurai and bushido ethics, think of the end of the emperor. There is no last emperor there; there is just an extra emperor who is as dull as a Dutch queen. I was in Tokyo last year; the atmosphere is not human, it is post-human and you have (like I already explained) to be a false cosmonaut -or a cockroach – to survive in such awful conditions.
So where is the East we used to dream of? Today’s pilgrimages are just business stuff like ours. La Mecca is now a nightmare and a big one, built and rebuilt by Bin Laden clan! Last Sunday Lionel Messi was almost lynched by a mob of football fans in Saudi Arabia. He is the real god of these new humans, not Allah. If we cast aside a minority of old believers, like in the West, mosques and old temples are just business or tourist centres while the churches have been replaced by shopping malls anywhere. One century ago, many had the feeling in Europe, like René Guénon, Schuon or Daniélou that there was something left intact in the entropy of the modern world. It was the East.
Guénon prophesised so an eastern victory at the End of Times and he was wrong. The East barely became the fifty-first American state like anyone. And no country has conserved a drop of his fading charisma (except Bhutan may be?). I won’t even mention China. Last night I almost wept reviewing my wonderful crouching tiger hidden dragon. Look post-modern China: is that what we were promised to? You just have fumes, smokes, corruption, empty luxury shops, traffic jam and imperialistic bargain with the Americans. Have you been recently in China, once the most beautiful landscape in the world turned into a Las Vegas suburb? Is that the result of the first world economy? Killing her soul as well as her body?
Well, may be we were expecting too much of eastern humanity. They were so poor, you know, and civilization was so fascinating, you know… Everybody wants his fridge, his smart phone and his holidays on the beach, I know…
Yet I am not resigned. The decline of the east will come too, economically and demographically, like in the West and like in Japan. The human being who betrays his ideals his ancestors and his faith to behave like a Yankee is spiritually and economically doomed. Here will be Obama everywhere, bankrupting a morally deficient and warmonger country!
This is why I wait a lot from Eastern Europe, eastern Christianity, after the fall of our cataclysmic currency (euro) and of our alliance with the Americans.
As put once Heidegger, the West means what it is the nearer to the origin. There will be a rebirth of the West.
Nicolas Bonnal
3 Dec 2012, 21:49 pm
So many to choose from
Some of my personal favourites who are legends of the game: All of these played from the 80′s onwards:
Desmond Haynes
Sunil Gavaskar
Brian Lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Jaques Kallis
Steve Waugh
Adam Gilchrist
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Waqar Younis
Wasim Akram
Special mention:
Gordon Greenwich
Saeed Anwar
Virendra Sehwag
Graeme Smith
Ricky Ponting
Murali
Kapil Dev
Curtley Ambrose
Glen McGrath
Alan Donald
Sean Pollock
Dale Steyn
Ricky Ponting
Matty Hayden
Many more that spring to mind
3 Dec 2012, 21:51 pm
@willievz-7394:
Problem is, he got disillusioned.
He was at his prime when we got kicked out.
The Packer circus gave him some respite at least
3 Dec 2012, 21:53 pm
Oh Sh’t sorry .. wrong thread..
this is the skittle sticks thread..
the virtual pub lavatory thread is next door
skittle sticks… what a bloody borefest.. almost as boring as a horefest.
so long pluckers .. keep the galloping googly goody gumdrops going
3 Dec 2012, 21:53 pm
@nortierd-7398:
Same with Procter.
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