Hore set for hefty ban
26 Nov 2012
New Zealand hooker Andrew Hore has been cited for an off-the-ball incident which subsequently hospitalised Wales lock Bradley Davies.
Hore hit Davies off the ball during the initial stages of last Saturday’s Test in Cardiff. The incident was missed by matchday officials, but Hore has now been cited and looks likely to receive a lengthy suspension.
The time and date of the hearing, before the IRB’s appointed independent judicial officer, have yet to be fixed.
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen expects the hooker to be sidelined for some time. Hansen did not say as much, but has already called for a replacement ahead of the coming Test against England.
Dane Coles is expected to start at Twickenham.
30,305 Comments
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10 Jan 2013, 21:33 pm
@CharlesM-22845:
all quiet on the western front
10 Jan 2013, 21:33 pm
@carol-22840:
@nortierd-22846:
I hope Slarti reads this.
He’s the main man.
10 Jan 2013, 21:34 pm
@ufo-22833: Ditto from me!
10 Jan 2013, 21:34 pm
yeah stormer… true…
as some said the other day… katman or gunther…
we should’ve scheduled the black cap tests one after the other…
stormers announce their pre-season warm ups tomorrow… so hopefully will get into rugby quite soon too…
10 Jan 2013, 21:35 pm
@ufo-22844: @nortierd-22846:
Looks like I need to visit the home page then!!
Nothing like a superBru super 15, I nearly won it once!!
10 Jan 2013, 21:35 pm
@ufo-22850:
already got my new jersey UFO
will buy another new one next year when they bring it out with the embroidery of Superrugby Champions 2013 on the sleeve
10 Jan 2013, 21:35 pm
hey brumbie… thanks bud and to you too…
10 Jan 2013, 21:36 pm
@carol-22855:
quite a feat
difficult to crack even the top 10 percent
10 Jan 2013, 21:36 pm
@I am a stormer-22848:
Hiya, are the Stormers looking good for the start of the new season?
10 Jan 2013, 21:37 pm
yeah carol… i haven’t done it for a few years because i can’t always put in my predictions…
maybe i will this year…
just because…
10 Jan 2013, 21:38 pm
@nortierd-22856:
Of Super Choakers onder die Cipla op die kraag?
10 Jan 2013, 21:39 pm
This is great, it is like popping into your favourite pub….
Only one of your chums at the bar, you order a beer and suddenley lots of great folks pop in for a drink!!
There is the ‘Grumpy Old Bloke’ in the corner muttering to himself, but he has had quite a few already and is making even less sense than usual!!
10 Jan 2013, 21:39 pm
yeah nortie… i stick with my old fashioned long-sleeved pure cotton circa 80s replica wp jersey…
no sponsors and just a red disa and i heart wp small on the chest…
10 Jan 2013, 21:40 pm
true carol…
can be a fun way to while away a few hours with some good folk…
10 Jan 2013, 21:40 pm
@nortierd-22858:
Considering I am
1. A Pommie
2. A female
It was great beating so many Saffa Rugby Experts!!
10 Jan 2013, 21:40 pm
need rob and few others to pull in…
10 Jan 2013, 21:41 pm
@ufo-22863:
My friend here has exactly the same one
I wish I could find one of the old Northern Transvaal jerseys, the old greyish blue ones
10 Jan 2013, 21:42 pm
that was very impressive carol…
10 Jan 2013, 21:42 pm
@nortierd-22856:
Will you be at Loftus on 22nd Feb?
Stormers supporters outnumbered the Bulls last year. I reckon we can do it again.
10 Jan 2013, 21:43 pm
@ufo-22866:
I will give him a shout!!
10 Jan 2013, 21:43 pm
@I am a stormer-22869:
Newsflash, everyone wearing pink that day wasn’t from Cape Town
10 Jan 2013, 21:44 pm
cool VB…
yeah… i love the whole nostalgic retro feel to it… takes me back to our glory days… and fills me with hope for more…
you’d have to find one to buy from someone who’s packed one away somewhere cause don’t think you’d find any commercially available anymore…
maybe advertise on gumtree and ask… see what feedback you get…
10 Jan 2013, 21:44 pm
@carol-22862:
10 Jan 2013, 21:45 pm
@carol-22865:
that must have been fun, for you, not them
@ufo-22863:
I like the new jersey
I bought the away strip last year and now got the new one.
The supporters Club up here have a nice one
Province colours with the disa on the left and Stormers logo on the right
10 Jan 2013, 21:46 pm
@carol-22859:
Howzit Carol.
This comp is not for sissies.
The Stormers itinerary is looking horrid. Have the Bulls away, Sharks home and away within 6 weeks of each other, Crudasers home, Brumbies home. And that’s even before mid-April when they go on tour.
You okay?
10 Jan 2013, 21:46 pm
hey charles…
you still here bud…?
no lurking for you and shooter…
i know neither of you do… but your silence is unsettling…
10 Jan 2013, 21:46 pm
@I am a stormer-22869:
Am planning on going, should be good fun.
Always nice giving them carrots on their own turf.
10 Jan 2013, 21:47 pm
You will be in good company when you take up residence in hell,little dammed boy.
Few in South Africa took much notice when five sleeping teenage boys were shot by a military hit squad just days before the country’s last white president, FW de Klerk, received his Nobel peace prize for ending apartheid.
Thirteen years later the deaths have returned to haunt Mr de Klerk after a decision to prosecute one of his former cabinet ministers for apartheid-era crimes prompted fresh scrutiny of what South Africa’s last white president knew about the campaign of assassinations, bombings and torture against the regime’s opponents.
The man once lauded across the globe for freeing Nelson Mandela and ending white rule now faces headlines at home declaring “You’re a murderer too, FW!” and accusations that his Nobel prize “is soaked in blood”.
Former enemies, and some of those who served the apartheid security apparatus, are questioning Mr de Klerk’s claim that he knew nothing about police and military hit squads and other illegal covert activities.
Among his accusers is Eugene de Kock, the ex-commander of a police murder squad who is serving a 212- year prison sentence. He says he has “new evidence” against Mr de Klerk whom he described in an interview to a Johannesburg radio station as an “unconvicted murderer”.
The accusations have created a backlash among some whites who say that if there are to be prosecutions for politically motivated crimes then many at the top of the ruling African National Congress should also stand trial.
Mr de Klerk has acknowledged that there was a strategy to murder prominent anti-apartheid activists but says it was carried out by rogue elements within the security forces and he was horrified when he found out years later. At a press conference in Cape Town, his voice cracked with emotion as he said he was being unfairly implicated.
“I am not standing here to defend myself. On these issues my conscience is clear. I am owed a fair deal in my own country,” he said.
Denial
“I was never part of policies that said murder is fine – cold-blooded murder is fine, rape is fine, torture is fine.”
The former president said the accusations were intended to strip him, and the 70% of whites who supported his reforms in a 1992 referendum, of an “honourable place at the table as co-creators of the new South Africa”.
The spotlight shifted to Mr de Klerk after his former law and order minister, Adriaan Vlok, was charged last month with attempted murder for ordering a police hit squad to poison an anti-apartheid leader, the Rev Frank Chikane, who survived and is now the director general of President Thabo Mbeki’s office.
Johannesburg newspapers reported that Mr Vlok is striking a plea bargain in which he implicates Mr de Klerk. The former president has denied that his law and order minister consulted him before ordering the murder attempt.
But Mr de Klerk has not denied ordering the 1993 raid, in which the five boys were killed, on what was described as a Pan Africanist Congress safe house used to plan “terrorist attacks”.
After the attack, the military said the dead were men who were armed and shooting but photographs of the scene showed the boys still in their beds, riddled with bullets and no guns in sight. Mr de Klerk later described the killings as a tragic mistake.
Sigqibo Mpendulo, a PAC activist who was imprisoned on Robben Island for five years and lost his twin 16-year-old sons in the attack, says the former president should be prosecuted because it was the modus operandi of such attacks to massacre everyone in the targeted house, as happened in similar raids on in Zimbabwe and Mozambique. “De Klerk killed my children. They were innocent. They were not [PAC] forces,” he said.
Ten years ago, Mr de Klerk appeared before the truth and reconciliation commission to apologise for apartheid and the crimes committed in defence of white rule but to deny any personal knowledge or responsibility.
The former president grew increasingly agitated under questioning by TRC lawyers sceptical of his attempts to distance himself from the killings.
Howard Varney, a TRC investigator who drew up questions for Mr de Klerk at the hearings, told the Guardian that as the former president sat on the state security council, which decided on the strategy to combat black unrest, his denials were not credible.
“It’s untenable that a cabinet minister who sat in the state security council meetings from 1985 to 1989 claims that he was unaware that gross human rights violations were being committed on an ongoing basis,” he said.
“Aside from the fact that plainly unlawful programmes were being considered by the SSC meetings he attended, he would have been aware that the security forces were running amok on the ground. He took no steps to voice objections or distance himself or to restrain them in any way.”
Among the decisions Mr de Klerk was party to was the establishment of a covert paramilitary force, trained and equipped by the army, that was responsible for much of the violence unleashed against anti-apartheid activists in the mid-1980s.
Mr de Klerk also attended a meeting at which the SSC discussed “shortening the list of politically sensitive individuals by means other than detention”. He refused to answer a question about that meeting at the TRC hearings. Today he declines to interpret what the phrasing might have meant but denies ever endorsing a decision to assassinate activists.
Secret minutes
“I was not present at any meeting in any context where decisions to murder people were discussed. I do recall discussions relating to banning orders, restrictions or transferring or redeploying politically sensitive individuals to other places or employment away from their power bases,” he said.
Secret minutes of another state security council meeting attended by Mr de Klerk show he supported a decision to “remove” Matthew Goniwe, a black teacher in the Eastern Cape described by security forces as “at the forefront of a revolutionary attack against the state”.
Two days after the meeting, a security policemen visited Cradock, where Mr Goniwe lived, to size up how best to kill him. The policeman, Jaap van Jaarsveld, told the TRC he recommended that the activist be “taken out” on a deserted road. Fifteen months later, Mr Goniwe and three other men were stopped at a roadblock, strangled with telephone wire, stabbed and shot to death. Their faces were burned to hinder identification, and Mr Goniwe’s hands were hacked off. For years afterward political suspects interrogated by Port Elizabeth security branch told how a senior officer would question them while a pickled hand in a jar sat on the desk.
The minutes of the SSC meeting show the word applied to Mr Goniwe is the Afrikaans verwyder, translated as “remove, get rid of, put out of the way, dispose of, eliminate, estrange, obviate”.
A judicial inquiry in 1989 concluded that a written request by a senior military officer to kill Mr Goniwe which included verwyder amounted to a “death warrant”. The memo was addressed to the state security council.
In 1999, Mr de Klerk told the Guardian that verwyder merely referred to moving Mr Goniwe to another teaching job away from Cradock.
Last week, Mr de Klerk said that although he was a member of the state security cabinet it was not briefed “on clandestine operations involving murders, assassinations or the like – all of which were evidently carried out strictly on a ‘need to know’ basis”.
But suspicion that the politicians knew more than they were prepared to admit was heightened when Mr de Klerk, in his last months as president, ordered the wholesale shredding and incineration of tons of documents, microfilm and computer tapes that dealt with matters such as the chain of command in covert operations.
Hidden truth
South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission left crucial questions about apartheid-era atrocities unanswered, such as what did the country’s political leaders know about the assassinations, bombings and other crimes carried out against the liberation movements, and when? Although former secret policemen and other operatives confessed to murders and other attacks, only one apartheid-era cabinet minister, Adriaan Vlok, admitted his part and so the full extent to which the top leaders of the regime were responsible for the bloody covert war on its opponents has still not been laid bare. The former president PW Botha was found to have directly authorised “unlawful activity which included killing”. His conviction was overturned on appeal. Other cabinet ministers pleaded ignorance of apartheid atrocities and so declined to apply for amnesty, including FW de Klerk, who dismantled apartheid.
10 Jan 2013, 21:48 pm
@carol-22862:
Just don’t mention names. I think he’s stumbled out.
10 Jan 2013, 21:48 pm
Ufo I just had to do a few chores at home!
10 Jan 2013, 21:48 pm
apologies nortie…
not dissing the new kit… thinks it’s cool too…
i enjoy the fact they’ve gone back to traditional wp blue…
my mates and i always say we’d love them to just play in the wp jerseys… but know with marketing and merchandising etc… that’s never likely to happen…
10 Jan 2013, 21:49 pm
cool charles…
10 Jan 2013, 21:50 pm
@I am a stormer-22875:
Yes a real rugby JERSEY with sleeves not some slick lycra t-shirt
@ufo-22872:
You’re lucky to play the Bulls first, normally they start slow or sometimes not at all, and you have an experienced side with an exiting flyhalf
10 Jan 2013, 21:50 pm
Wherezat fecking wannabe
10 Jan 2013, 21:51 pm
now we need shooter and willie here and then with you and nortie have all the big guns competing for the 000
10 Jan 2013, 21:51 pm
BTW Carol will you please be so kind and close your back door – there seems to be one hell of a cold wind coming through from the north!
10 Jan 2013, 21:52 pm
@ufo-22881:
was talking about it today
teams are all becoming like Man U, making more money by changing the strip every year than anything else.
I was also taken by the new one because of the Province colours
anything is better than that Plascon paint advert they had in the 90′s as the Western Stormers
10 Jan 2013, 21:53 pm
@CharlesM-22886:
Doesn’t sound quite right
10 Jan 2013, 21:53 pm
1971?
What’s the date on that epistle?
10 Jan 2013, 21:53 pm
@victoriabok-22883:
kom jy al klaar met verskonings?
aai, aai, aai
10 Jan 2013, 21:54 pm
@nortierd-22887:
It was mostly yellow if I remember correctly?
10 Jan 2013, 21:54 pm
Oh the ‘Grumpy Old Bloke’ has woken up and has started ranting again!!
Shame, Billy No Mates!!
10 Jan 2013, 21:54 pm
vb, i’m not taking anything for granted this year…
i think it’s gonna be very competitive and even… gonna be a very tight race…
will never take the bulls or sharks… or cheetahs… or anyone NZ or aus teams for granted…
stormers need to play every game as if they’re playing the defending champions… every game….
10 Jan 2013, 21:55 pm
@nortierd-22890:
Wag maar tot die einde van die toernooi dan is dit weer julle beurt soos toe die Sharks julle gebuig het
10 Jan 2013, 21:56 pm
@Dawn-22884:
Wannabe what Dawn?
10 Jan 2013, 21:56 pm
I liked those long sleeves when it was really cold but when it was raining the jerseys “stuck” to your torso – It felt as if you were carrying a brick on your chest! It (the jersey) “kept on pulling you down!”
10 Jan 2013, 21:56 pm
yeah nortie… that one that had orange in it was terrible…
looked liked someone just knocked a few cans of plascon onto our jerseys….
10 Jan 2013, 21:58 pm
@victoriabok-22891:
No, the vomit only made it look yellow.
Wasn’t a pretty sight, but I guess today it would be considered a collectors item.
10 Jan 2013, 21:58 pm
‘unconvicted murderer”. I love that term.Now that’s a good way to describe FW,Charles and numerous others.
10 Jan 2013, 21:58 pm
true charles…
but rugby in those days was not about comfort…
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