World’s best not NZ’s best
10 Dec 2012
IRB Player of the Year Dan Carter has not been nominated for New Zealand’s Player of the Year award.
The All Blacks flyhalf was recently crowned the world’s best ahead of other nominees Richie McCaw, Freddie Michalak and Owen Farrell. However, the New Zealand Rugby Union clearly disagrees with that decision as it has nominated McCaw, No 8 Kieran Read and centre Conrad Smith for its award.
Israel Dagg, Liam Messam and Aaron Smith are contenders for the Maori Player of the Year award, while Steve Hansen (All Blacks), Dave Rennie (Chiefs) and Gordon Tietjens (NZ Sevens) are up for Coach of the Year.
92 Comments
10 Dec 2012, 12:50 pm
John Eales and his pack of fools contradicted once again. I think either Reid or Smith.
10 Dec 2012, 13:44 pm
Carter did not play consitent as Reid or Smith
must be Reid..being consistent all year
10 Dec 2012, 14:16 pm
They have a “Maori Player of the Year” award?
10 Dec 2012, 14:40 pm
@Taahirah-3: Fortunately the minority award doesn’t cause as much controversy as it would in SA if you had an award for best Afrikaner.
@greatest13gerber-2: As much as I love Read, he did have one or two off games, e.g. vs Wales when it started with a mistimed haka and ended with a fairly ordinary game by his standards
I’d go for Conrad Smith but Dagg also needs a mention. To think this is his first year nailling the starting spot.
10 Dec 2012, 14:40 pm
Racism in NZ sport?
How can more than half of your starting team be Maori, but all 3 of the nominees be European?
This may be the reason that Carter is not nominated. There had been some speculation that he may also have some Samoan blood in him.
We should boycott future tours to NZ!!!
10 Dec 2012, 14:47 pm
@Horings-5: Don’t let facts stand in the way of a good story. Which half of the team is Maori?
10 Dec 2012, 14:50 pm
@gonzo-6: Dagg, Jane, Nonu, Savea, Carter, Smith, Messam and Mealamu.
10 Dec 2012, 14:54 pm
Reid, Dagg.
Even though Carter had one or two of the best games of the season of any kiwi, Reid was my IRB player of the year. The IRB nominations this year were a shocker.
10 Dec 2012, 14:55 pm
@Horings-7: I know you’re only stirring but I’ll give you an answer anyway
Nonu, Mealamu, Savea are NZ/Samoan
I’m not aware Carter is Maori. Any source for this?
Smith wouldn’t even get rookie of the year, Savea would, so definitely not player of the year. Messam is probably the last name on the team sheet.
Jane is more white than he is Maori, not that it proves anything.
Dagg should’ve been on the list
10 Dec 2012, 14:57 pm
@Horings-7: lol…is there a difference between a samoan & a maori in your mind?
10 Dec 2012, 15:05 pm
@Transformation-10: My only criteria is whether they are eligible to play for the NZ Maori team. Are NZ/Samoans allowed to play for them?
10 Dec 2012, 15:06 pm
@greatest13gerber-2: Yeah I reckon Conrad Smith was awesome this year…just shows what a load of tripe the IRB awards are.
10 Dec 2012, 15:08 pm
@gonzo-9: This is the thing. I am actually trying to show how most South Africans make conclusions based on numbers. If more than half of the SA team were white and all the nominees for SA player of the year were black, then most people in SA will read something into it.
10 Dec 2012, 15:13 pm
I didn’t see Savea play much for the Hurricanes this year but watched his AB games though.
What are your thoughts about him? Is he a future star?
The little I saw, he looks physically up to it. What’s his skill level like, his feel for the game (e.g. Conrad Smith excells here), and what is his speed like?
10 Dec 2012, 15:22 pm
the funny thing is when i said he did not deserve it, at all, on an earlier thread i was criticised for saying so.
seems the DNZRU shares my sentiments…
10 Dec 2012, 15:40 pm
@Horings-11: I don’t know. Can Russians play for England because they are white?
@Horings-13: I know, I’m just messing with you. I’m in an argumentative mood
10 Dec 2012, 15:53 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-15: But do you think any of the other All Blacks deserve the IRB player of the year award?
10 Dec 2012, 15:54 pm
@Horings-13: Watch this from 1:05. Haha, no racism in NZ bro
Imagine him saying that in SA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KCXB7XSnCE
10 Dec 2012, 15:57 pm
@gonzo-16: For me Samoans, Fijians, Tongans and Maoris are pretty much the same.
In the same way that you will probably not be able to distinguish between Venda and Xhosa
10 Dec 2012, 16:06 pm
@Horings-19: I guess it depends on where you are from. We can probably spot the difference between someone from Russia/France/Germany from a mile away and know they might be offended if we grouped them together, but someone from China perhaps couldn’t. The Maori, Samoans, Tongans look a lot more similar, being from Polynesia, whereas the Fijians are darker, from Melanesia. But they are different countries and different people. The Maori came to NZ around 800 years ago and consider how different the map of the world is since then.
But back to your question – only someone with Maori blood can represent NZ Maori. Samoans can’t, Tongans can’t, Chinese can’t Indians can’t, unless they have some Maori blood
10 Dec 2012, 16:10 pm
@gonzo-20: Is that not not unconstitutional? I dont know the NZ constitution.
10 Dec 2012, 16:21 pm
@blik-21: We don’t technically have a constitution although the Maori party are working on one. They may include a clause allowing for NZ Maori rugby team.
Possibly it is illegal to have a team based on ethnicity but I don’t think anyone thinks much about it. If you’re a white guy that can’t make the ABs, doesn’t qualify for NZ Maori, you can always go and play Ireland/Wales/Scotland/England.
Maori culture was getting a little marginalised at one point. I think most people support the idea of more culture, language in the mainstream and having a Maori team can’t be a bad thing in helping that develop
10 Dec 2012, 16:27 pm
@gonzo-22: Come to think of it, there is a % of seats in parliament (sort of) reserved for Maori so I can’t imagine a Maori rugby team would be illegal
10 Dec 2012, 16:51 pm
@Horings-17:
read, the new wing, maybe dagg.
for me its really about the non nz players who could and should have been nominated.
10 Dec 2012, 16:57 pm
@Transformation-10:
lol… is there a difference between a samoan and a maori in a maori’s mind?
10 Dec 2012, 16:58 pm
Maori’s dont mind being called Maoris. But blecks….eish….marra….I dont want to be called a bleck….rather call me ‘dak brown’
10 Dec 2012, 17:00 pm
Even Jub Jub Maarohanye’s accident was because of apartheid. Even lightning is ‘recist’
10 Dec 2012, 18:08 pm
lol the NZRU just undermined the IRB award and their own flyhalf.
10 Dec 2012, 19:26 pm
Habana was ignored altogher ?
Did I see things?
10 Dec 2012, 20:49 pm
@Hondo-29: He had a good case for NZ player of the year in 2010 – but not so much this year.
10 Dec 2012, 21:08 pm
dagg
obviously is
neither
maori
nor samoan
clearly
he is
jewish
10 Dec 2012, 21:23 pm
@Porra-31: lol…hi porra… are u talking about israel akuhata dagg?
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-25: u are special bakkies
10 Dec 2012, 21:50 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-25:
Yes
@Big Hit-28:
Different opinions
10 Dec 2012, 22:06 pm
Israel Dagg is not Jewish and is eligible to play for the NZ Maoris.
10 Dec 2012, 22:11 pm
I do find it a bit odd that you have separate awards and teams in NZ, that would be like having an all Zulu or Xhosa team excluding all others or a all Whites team. Does not come across as unified, maybe that’s the wrong word, am sure some one will explain better at some point.
10 Dec 2012, 22:26 pm
1908
The Anglo-Welsh touring team defeat an
Arawa XV 24–3 at Rotorua on 21 July.
A M?ori team led by Asher tours New South
Wales, converting to rugby league on arrival
in Sydney.
1910
The first M?ori team selected with NZRFU
permission plays its first match against a
Rotorua team, winning 25–5. Managed by
Wiremu (‘Ned’) Parata, M?ori rugby’s first
leading administrator, it tours Australia and
New Zealand, winning 12 and drawing 3 of
19 matches. Team member R. Nuku of
South Auckland achieves a unique double –
he also played for the first New Zealand
Universities team, in Australia in 1908.
1921
NZ M?ori lose 8–9 to South Africa in Napier
amidst controversy. A reporter travelling
with the Springboks is outraged that the
spectators support ‘coloured men’ against
‘members of their own race’. His cable is
leaked to the press.
saffas…
10 Dec 2012, 22:33 pm
@Dusky-26: white is the old pink brown
11 Dec 2012, 06:12 am
It will be Richie McCaw for sure & deservedly so.
Read has had a fantastic year & will run a close second but no one else is in the running. McCaw has had yet another unbelievable year & although he may not be as quick over the ground as he once was his workrate has actually increased. His worth to the team IMO has increased dramatically as now not only does he still do the fetching but also a lot more of the hard graft.
If Read gets the nod it will be on the back of 5/6 performances that were very special but I do not believe his level of consistency matched McCaw.
11 Dec 2012, 06:44 am
@Transformation-32:
@Hurricane-33:
ok thanks, good to know
@Dancing Bear-34:
are you saying jews cant play for the maoris?
you sound anti-semitic.
11 Dec 2012, 08:00 am
@blik-1:
What does John Eales have to do with the nominations of NZ nominations? They’re definitely a pack of fools, you know much better right!?
11 Dec 2012, 09:12 am
The first Nz Rugby Union Team to tour overseas in 1888-89 was in fact the Nz Native Team…the forerunner of Nz Maori Teams and the All Blacks
11 Dec 2012, 10:38 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-25: As much difference as an German and a Frenchman. Both Europeans, look kinda the same , their language has the same root romantic source.
Ipso facto no difference between them.
Maori and Samoan are different races and different cultures which share a common ancestry as all Europeans share a common ancestry.
Players of Jewish descent have played for NZ Maori Jason Goldsmith had both Maori and Jewish ancestry.
11 Dec 2012, 11:38 am
@lapoftherugbygods-42:
the info on players of jewish descent playing for the nz maori is informative, thank you. although, i am led to understand the rules for eligibility as a jew are a little tricky so it may need verification.
also the info on samoans and maoris.
as for the comparison of french and germans, i am afraid you are wrong in regards the two languages being from the root romantic/latin source, they are not.
french has its roots in the romance/latin language but german, like english and afrikaans, is rooted in the west germanic and germanic language/s which is a totally different branch and tree structure to latin/vulgar latin/romance.
perhaps you meant the indo-european language from which they ultimately both derive?
also, i would say that though germans and french people look kind the same they too are derived from very different seed stocks of forebears/ancestors. french i would say have a lot of gallic/celtic/latin and other types of admixtures more so than they have any teutonic/germanic bloodlines.
anyway, i get your ponit though.
11 Dec 2012, 11:53 am
@lapoftherugbygods-42:
maybe germans and english people would be a better example.
11 Dec 2012, 12:40 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-43: quit being a tool…Zulus aren’t Xhosas even though they’re both Nguni tribe, languages very similar, some customs overlap etc.
11 Dec 2012, 12:58 pm
@lapoftherugbygods-42: maori and samoan are two different races?
no man, thats twaddle.
@Transformation-45: that isnt the point bud, german is distinct from french in that the language origins are different like setswana and pedi from isiZulu, isiXhosa and Swazi (nguni languages).
it was actually spot on by bakkies.
11 Dec 2012, 13:08 pm
Simon you will do well to mention the IRB award is based on test performances only – any country’s award is based on every game that is played of which Super Rugby is a massive part.
11 Dec 2012, 13:16 pm
@Transformation-45:
you’re a tool, fool…
11 Dec 2012, 13:18 pm
@Transformation-45:
please refer to rangers validation in # 46, thank you.
11 Dec 2012, 13:23 pm
@The Rangerman-46:
Makes it weird how we get done for poaching……. we are the same race.
11 Dec 2012, 13:24 pm
@The Rangerman-46: What is race really? The point here is that although Samoans and Maori are both Polynesian, they not the same people, are from different countries, speak different languages, had very different cultures because their countries are further apart than UK and Algeria and are separated by an ocean, and wouldn’t have encountered each other for more than 800 years after the Maori left to NZ. I’m not even sure how much interaction there was. Whether the difference is the same as French vs German or French vs Italian doesn’t really matter. There’s a difference and that’s why Samoans don’t play for NZ Maori
11 Dec 2012, 13:28 pm
@gonzo-51: I meant to say
I’m not even sure how much interaction there was before the Maori went south
11 Dec 2012, 13:43 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-48:
11 Dec 2012, 14:57 pm
@The Rangerman-46: read gonzo’s #51 bakkies asks inane questions & similar insinuations about maoris & samoans – so does horings – then he wants to jump up & be an authority on germans & the french…toolish behaviour
11 Dec 2012, 15:11 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-53: hi ‘imi’…are u Aborigine?
11 Dec 2012, 15:17 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-53: hey ‘imi’.. what is thr difference between you & the people commonly referred to as CapeCrusaders?
you support Australia & any other team vs South Africa in all sports…hhmm
there’s a word for the likes of you on Keo, You’re lucky Woosrn Spoon doesn’t blog anymore…
11 Dec 2012, 15:35 pm
@PissAnt-47:
It may be above his pay scale I guess getting down to such minor details?
Picalomo must have been head and shoulders above McCaw and the performance of Louw surely stood out without being a cheat who prospers off the hand of the test referees?
11 Dec 2012, 15:50 pm
@Transformation-54:
its a blog and we are here to benefit one another through the sharing of information and the growing of knowledge, ok.
dont you like it when i put you in school, Transie..?..
11 Dec 2012, 15:56 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-58: me? hehehe u are a tool & hoot @ the same time…special our bakkies
11 Dec 2012, 16:07 pm
@Transformation-59:
11 Dec 2012, 17:19 pm
Just when I thought things were getting a bit boring around here along comes a Kings article. Keo, get your A into G
———————————————————-
EP Rugby CEO Anele Pamba has resigned from his position with immediate effect, leaving President Cheeky Watson in “shock”.
Pamba was the EPRU Deputy President in 2008 and agreed to take up the interim CEO position in 2009, until such a time when the Kings were granted the opportunity to play Super Rugby, which they are poised to do next year.
Watson paid tribute to Pamba’s contribution to the Kings and admitted that he will not be easily replaced.
“Of course this decision comes as a shock to many of us, and certainly Anele’s (Pamba’s) enthusiasm and dedication will be sorely missed. However, we cannot prevent him from wanting to pursue other avenues and projects and we certainly wish him well in his future endeavours,” he said.
General Manager Charl Crous will act in the CEO position up until such a time when a fulltime replacement is found to resume the CEO duties.
11 Dec 2012, 19:41 pm
@Transformation-55: Are you a policeman?
11 Dec 2012, 19:45 pm
@Transformation-56: You know my feelings. For as long as South Africa adopts the racist quota system I will not support any of their teams.
My stance is not-negotiable.
11 Dec 2012, 21:34 pm
@Hondo-57:
Lucky you are not on the IRB panel for picking the best players.
Of those players, which one led there team into so many victories this year?
Red carded players should not be picked for best player of the year.
11 Dec 2012, 21:41 pm
@gonzo-51:
Interesting korero gonzo.The Maori originated in Eastern Polynesia and we share a common heritage with the Cook Islands Maori and the peoples of Tahiti.My own tribe(iwi) trace our origins back to the island of Raiatea which is part of Tahiti.There are other tribes that originate from other islands of the Cooks such as Manaia,Aitutaki and Rarotonga. In those days the seamanship of the Polynesians was so skillful that travelling by catamaran and multi hulled vessels to other islands was accomplished with relative ease.
I was always of the belief that the Tongan were one of the oldest peoples of Polynesia and because of population pressures and changes in climate etc, new lands to settle were always being sought after and hence there were west to east migration patterns, with the last great migrations being the Maori to Aotearoa Nz and the Maoli to Hawaii.
11 Dec 2012, 22:31 pm
@Te Rangatira-65: I was hoping no one would come on tell me I’m talking sh*t
But you answered a question I had. When I was on Raro, there is a spot they claim the Maori launched from. But I’d also heard mention of Tahiti, so I wasn’t sure which one was right. But based on what you’re saying the different tribes came from different islands.
How different are the languages? I guess Cook Islands Maori and NZ Maori are basically the same. Could you understand Tahitian? And how far off is Samoan, quite different or similar enough that you can get an idea of what someone is saying?
12 Dec 2012, 01:42 am
Kia ora gonzo…the dialect of Taranaki is very similar to Raro, but most fluent Maori speakers can converse with the peoples of the Cook Islands and Raiatea.Tonga have similar words and concepts.Samoa is a different kettle of fish,very hard to understand
12 Dec 2012, 02:17 am
@Hurricane-64:
Was Louw red carded before or after the award?
12 Dec 2012, 04:19 am
@damienm-68:
Good call.
I am not too sure.
12 Dec 2012, 04:37 am
@Hurricane-69:
Trick question, he knows the answer…
12 Dec 2012, 05:23 am
@Slartibartfast-70:
OH, well let him be silly then.
I think is was just after anyway, looking at the when it happened….so the red card has not effect on the outcome.
But the award should be given to the most consistent. I havnt seen all Louws performances so cant really comment on how he did n every game
12 Dec 2012, 06:01 am
@Hurricane-71:
Well Louw played a few tests at the end of the year, hardly enough to make him qualify against players who had a full ‘test year’.
IRB awards don’t carry much water for me anyway, selected by a few individuals with their own agendas and preferences. Would be worth much more if they were selected based on what players and coaches say over a year, maybe a points system like the have in afl/nrl.
In that system you get disqualified when you get a suspension of any sort too.
12 Dec 2012, 06:18 am
louw only missed 5 of the Boks’ games this year…the 3 vs England in June & the 2 vs the Argies.
now in my mind carter missed at least 3 due to injury & farrell, well the less said about him the better…
12 Dec 2012, 06:44 am
5/12 = 42%
But put that aside, still maintain the awards are rubbish.
12 Dec 2012, 06:47 am
@BrumbiesBoy-63: seems you won’t have a leg to stand on & will have to find another bush to hide behind ‘imi’ lol
january 2011
“We are, since President Zuma deployed us
to lead the Ministry of Sport and
Recreation, on record that the quota
system is both undesirable and a blunt tool
that we believe will not bring about
meaningful development and
transformation in sport as envisaged. Hence
our message to all federations is to do
away with quota systems and focus on
increasing participation and creating access
to all especially the disadvantaged so as to
create a pool of talent from which we can
select a non-racial and inclusive team.”
fikile mbalula – minister of sport
who will you support then ‘imi’?
12 Dec 2012, 06:55 am
@Slartibartfast-74: Carter played only nine tests this year out of 14.
12 Dec 2012, 06:58 am
@Transformation-76:
What do you want me to say, already said the awards are rubbish? Would have been the same if Louw or Eben or my Uncle Bob won it.
12 Dec 2012, 07:23 am
@Transformation-75: Oh Yeah?
Really?
Well, communication in the ANC is slower than I thought; that carefully-worded “policy statement” issued in January 2011 had still not reached Gwede Mantashe by November 2012 when he ranted and raved in Parliament about the lack of POCs in the Springbok team, forcing the coach to make unplanned changes.
Nice try pal, but you’ll have to try a bit harder.
And BTW, another requirement (read demand) of mine is that the Springbok emblem be returned to its rightful place in ALL sporting codes.
Then we can talk.
12 Dec 2012, 08:39 am
@Transformation-76:
Very good.
As long as he was consistently excellent in the games he played, which is over 60% of all tests avalible, he deserved it then.
I know in alot of those games he was a game changer.
But i am with Koos, awards are rubbish,normally only the country awards reflect the true progress of a player.
12 Dec 2012, 10:26 am
@BrumbiesBoy-78: lol…’imi’so you were/are comfortable with an exclusionary Springbok emblem but eschew the unifying Protea? right…
suppory Aus forever chap, we don’t want your ilk here!
12 Dec 2012, 12:01 pm
@Transformation-80: Now listen here, and listen good.
All teams should be selected on merit and merit alone…nothing else comes into contention.
And the Springbok emblem should represent the best of the best. Like it or not their are plenty of people who detest the Protea.
And sorry for you I’m here to stay so take your racist selection policies and stick them where the sun doesn’t shine.
12 Dec 2012, 13:26 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-81: hehehe calm down ‘imi’ – you chose to support Aus i didn’t make you.
you were comfortable supporting ‘Springboks’ of all sports prior to 1990 without them being picked on merit, why?
can i take it that you NEVER supported the Springbok ever in your life as the likes of Danie Gerber, Barry Richards were NOT selected on merit either, considering that the majority of the population was excluded?!
12 Dec 2012, 13:58 pm
@Transformation-82: Please bear in mind that there is a VERY LARGE difference in supporting a team; and supporting the unjust, unfair policies of the government of the day (which was the scenario in the period we’re talking about.
Remember also that there wasn’t much to support because of the (correct) sporting and other sanctions imposed on this country.
I would be lying to you if I said I never supported the Springboks on occasion but that did not mean I supported the Nats’ disgusting apartheid policies. When I voted against the Nats in our two referendums it was to a large degree because I wanted SA to be welcomed back into the world’s sporting community only this time with all people having the opportunity to represent their country.
Unfortunately, and I’ve told you this before, the ANC regime never learnt from the Nats that the policy of mixing sport & politics DOES NOT WORK and I would dearly love to support my country knowing that its team is comprised of the best quality available but sadly the government will not allow me to do so.
“No “abnormal” sport in a “normal” society.”
12 Dec 2012, 20:12 pm
@BrumbiesBoy-83: who in the Proteas team that just beat England & Australia away is there to make up numbers, Philander, Duminy, Amla, RobbieP, Alviro?
13 Dec 2012, 00:07 am
@BrumbiesBoy-83:
When I voted against the Nats in our two referendums it was to a large degree because I wanted SA to be welcomed back into the world’s sporting community only this time with all people having the opportunity to represent their country.
What was the questions in the two referendums that you voted against?
Two referendums that I can remember were the one just before the tricameral parlement was introduced and the other took place just before negotiations to establish the new, democratic SA started.
Are you saying that you voted “NO” in the referendum held by PW (to ask for your support for the tricameral parlement) and FW (to ask for you support to negotiate with the ANC and others to establish a new SA)?
13 Dec 2012, 07:44 am
@Transformation-84: I do not recognize that cricket team’s name, please rephrase your question.
13 Dec 2012, 08:02 am
@nama1-85: I do apologise; I have reread my earlier post and it does come across as being ambiguous.
Like you, I don’t remember the exact wording but do recall the first one (circa 1984) being along the lines of agreeing to the establishment of a tri-cameral parliament consisting of whites, indians & coloureds BUT WHICH WOULD EXCLUDE 87% of the country’s population…that one got a MOST DEFINITE “NO” from me.
And the second one (1989?) was along the lines of: “do you agree to negotiating with the ANC and others to create a new dispensation for the country?” which got a definite “YES” from me.
But I most definitely did not vote for the ANC to continue mixing sport with politics, and creating reverse Apartheid in the process.
13 Dec 2012, 08:10 am
Maori, Raratongans and Tahitians also quite closely linked to Hawaiins….many words of their languages the same, amazing given the distance between Hawaii and NZ. These guys were skilled voyagers……….
Also the Polynesians had reached South America and brought the kumara back to Polynesia.
13 Dec 2012, 08:36 am
@nama1-85:
A “No” vote during the “tri –cameral referendum” could have meant different things as the party to the right of the Nats (CP) and the one to the left (PFP) both campaigned for a “no-vote” but for different reasons. The PFP objected against the exclusion of blacks while the CP objected to the inclusion of coloureds and Indians.
At the end of the day about two thirds of the white voters voted “Yes” including many PFP supporters as they thought that even if blacks were excluded at the time a new constitution (with a tricameral parliament) would be at least a step in the right direction.
13 Dec 2012, 11:31 am
ja ne…”even if”…
hey ‘imi’ which is the nr1 Test team in Cricket?
13 Dec 2012, 11:35 am
@Transformation-90:
The Springboks
13 Dec 2012, 12:08 pm
@Mr Black-91:
Indeed they are!!!
But alas, the whole betting saga from 2000 onwards also killed my passion for the game worldwide and these days I don’t have much more than a passing interest in any games or teams.
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