Crackdown on school drug cheats
21 Jan 2013
Schoolboy rugby players caught doping could be suspended for three months or more or face expulsion.
The Cape Argus reports that a new testing programme launches on Monday, spearheaded by the SA Institute of Drug-Free Sport (Saids), which aims to eradicate a growing trend of steroid and drug use among teenagers in schools.
‘The testing will occur at any time and will not only be limited to athletes,’ said Saids chief executive Khalid Grant.
Substances that will be prohibited according to the programme include diuretics (which mask the presence of performance-enhancing drugs by flushing them out of the system), stimulants and steroids. Around 100 of South Africa’s top schools have signed up for the programme that will allow a school’s principle or Saids delegate to test any pupil suspected of doping.
According to Rapport, 18 out of 62 children independently tested in the past six months had positive results for drugs so dangerous they could lead to death.
304 Comments
21 Jan 2013, 07:04 am
Rife in rugby would be my guess…..
21 Jan 2013, 07:19 am
I chat to guys in the gym, it’s all over the place.
21 Jan 2013, 07:49 am
3 months not enough. If it is really used as much as it appears, a couple of examples need to be made. Expulsion. Or at the very least a year with regular test done after that.
21 Jan 2013, 07:53 am
My question is, who will fund all these tests? It does not come cheap so I doubt that they will test regularly. The schools are not going to spend too much money on this and the smaller unions neither.
21 Jan 2013, 07:56 am
Well I know that in the Cape this is doing the rounds and the head of Rugby for Paarl Boys High has apparently insisted that his whole team gets tested,
Practically it does pose a problem though.
21 Jan 2013, 08:08 am
kudos all round for addressing this problem and trying to put plans in place to combat it…
i can only wish them every success…
21 Jan 2013, 08:13 am
18 out of 62 were tested positive??
That is a huge percentage.,
21 Jan 2013, 08:17 am
This is such a necessary initiative … I was in the gym over the holidays and over heard 2 schoolboys talking very matter of factly about how they “Just took roids for a few weeks over the off season to build some extra muscle” …
21 Jan 2013, 08:41 am
@Tankman-8: there was another case of an oke hanging around schoolboys in the gym.
didnt turn out well.
21 Jan 2013, 08:43 am
just kidding eh tankman.
anyone named tankman is, much like rocketman, machinegunman and jetfighterman, not to be messed with.
21 Jan 2013, 08:44 am
@The Rangerman-9:
lmga
21 Jan 2013, 08:45 am
@Tankman-8:
Wow, that is sad.
I don’t know if it goes on in NZ, but I can’t see why it wouldn’t.
Young players these days come through the academy route rather than selection from club to rep team. So anything that makes them stand above other players for selection would be very tempting.
Particularly Caucasian Kiwi lads vying for recognition ahead of the Island boys. They seem to physically mature and bulk up far earlier than anyone else on the planet.
21 Jan 2013, 08:47 am
@The Rangerman-9: Too funny … Do tend to stay away from the steam rooms … Just to put your mind at reast
21 Jan 2013, 08:56 am
Good stuff Rangerman.
21 Jan 2013, 08:57 am
@The Rangerman-10:
Tankman prolly Tank Lanning
21 Jan 2013, 08:58 am
Now I have a valid excuse to avoid the gym, dangerous places that. Luckily I am in shape ever since someone mentioned that round is a shape.
21 Jan 2013, 09:03 am
Drugs a huge issue in school sport.
That combined with producing false IDs
But the aim is the same: to gain an unfair advantage
It seems like everything is always one big fat lie
21 Jan 2013, 09:06 am
Someone should contact Oprah and tell her to get a bigger studio.
Doubt if all these kids will fit onto her current couch.
21 Jan 2013, 09:08 am
great banter here…
@Sheriff-15:
it is he…
part of the keo kenners klub now…
21 Jan 2013, 09:09 am
@Sheriff-17:
False ID’s?
Are you saying schools are knowingly putting out teams with ringers in the squad, or are these individuals working the system?
21 Jan 2013, 09:18 am
@Brads-20:
Indivs working the system
Low appetite for schools to investigate as these ‘athletes’ improve their – that is: the school’s head of sport’s performance.
Costly to investigate, approximately R1500 per investigation if memory serves me right
Always appear to be ‘sour grapes’ – if you step forward and suggest an investigation the response is (never articulated but private thoughts): Mr/Mrs So and so, you need to accept the fact that your child will not always be the winner
21 Jan 2013, 09:26 am
This subject is long overdue! All of that can’t be all natural! I can already feel the self esteem being renewed on the stands
21 Jan 2013, 09:27 am
@Sheriff-21:
Okay, the issue here is resources to ferret out the ID cheats, that is fair.
A bit of an alien concept here in NZ where we have 1/10 SA population and everyone is a nosy butt hole about their neighbours lives.
21 Jan 2013, 09:30 am
I have witnesses parents paying ‘agents’ outside my gym, and taking the packages, whilst Junior stands next to dad with a doff look on his mug.
This is all so open and ‘out there’, I honestly don’t get the ‘shock and awe’ from some quarters…..
21 Jan 2013, 09:31 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-24: witnessed
21 Jan 2013, 09:31 am
@Brads-23:
So you saying NZ does not have this problem?
21 Jan 2013, 09:32 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-25:
We have had some poor “daddy agents” in our past haven’t we?
21 Jan 2013, 09:34 am
@Sheriff-26:
ID issues at school level – correct.
21 Jan 2013, 09:37 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-24:
You should have made a citizen’s arrest angel.
21 Jan 2013, 09:41 am
@Brads-28:
Your screening prolly better
Parents come into the country, say from random country Z
Have a kid with DOB 15 Jan 1998 but then change the year to 1998 or even 2000 and simply pay corrupt official R500 for their trouble
At one time 50 corrupt home affairs officials suspended/fired so hard to determine the full scope of problem
So anyone can see the discrepancy with the kid – clearly bigger or more mature but you cannot prove it for reasons outlined above
How many south africans in NZ as at end 2012?
21 Jan 2013, 09:42 am
Change the year to 1999 or even 2000
21 Jan 2013, 09:43 am
@gunther-29: Why? For a dude to get a R500-00 fine, and his 7 connections around the corner continue in any event?
I did kick up a huge fuss with the gym though…..as one of the PT’s was dating the ‘alleged’ supplier.
To be honest, I reckon that within 5 minutes, I could find you 15 suppiers for whatever it is you need. Everyone in the gym knows who to ask…..and who to contact…..
Until there is far larger ‘crackdown’, citizen’s arrests are bit a waste of time….(remembering that our forensics lab would take 7 years to test the substances in any event…….)
21 Jan 2013, 09:46 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-32:
‘Everyone in the gym knows’
So we can I speak to, or contact ?
21 Jan 2013, 09:48 am
@gunther-29:
So would you have arrested yourself?
Stop supplying these to the kids mate.
21 Jan 2013, 09:49 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-32:
It’s a banned substance in sport not an illegal substance.
Wont even end up on a docket and definitely no conviction.
21 Jan 2013, 09:50 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-32:
All it takes for evil to prosper is for good women to do nothing
21 Jan 2013, 09:53 am
@Sheriff-33:
You are beyond pharmaceutical help.
21 Jan 2013, 09:57 am
@gunther-37:
I asked you nicely to stop supplying these.
Stop rationalising by saying that ‘everybody does it’
That’s not true you know.
21 Jan 2013, 09:59 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-32:
Just tryin’ to brighten up your day with post 33
21 Jan 2013, 10:01 am
@Sheriff-33: It’s an open secret. And any gym regular or person moving in any sort of fitness/sport circles will confirm this.
@nortierd-35: There we go
@gunther-36: To be honest. If an adult wants to use…..he/she makes the decision for himself/herself and I couldn’t be bothered. However: when teens/young adults (for whom these substances are most toxic/harmful) are ‘stacking’ with adults supervising and egging them on – well…….that does not sit well with me.
21 Jan 2013, 10:01 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-32: Yip we all know who to talk to if you are looking for something. I could get a handful of doctors I know to prescribe testosterone (Sustanon or Depo T) me in a heartbeat. Totally legally. Then go to the Pharmacy and get it.
Whether I use it or give it to my son is another matter.
21 Jan 2013, 10:01 am
@Sheriff-39:
Thanking you kindly sir.
21 Jan 2013, 10:03 am
PAGAD:
People Against Gunther And Drugs
21 Jan 2013, 10:10 am
So if everyone is doing drugs out there, what is the real issue behind the Lance Armstrong saga?
If everyone is using/doing/knowing about it, why is it so important for everyone to condemn him?
21 Jan 2013, 10:13 am
Everyone isn’t doing it. Some are and they should be banned as cheats.
Simple.
21 Jan 2013, 10:15 am
@stormersboy-45:
So Armstrong the only one using it in cycling?
21 Jan 2013, 10:17 am
@Sheriff-44: As I have said before, Lance is still the legitimate Tour de France utimate champ of champs.
He is also, and will always be one of the finest athletes of our time.
He was the finest cyclist on the planet – doped or not. If the doping gave him such an advantage, why didn’t the other 250 doped up members of the peloton record the times and victories he did?
All the others had the same ‘alleged’ advantages as what he had……yet they couldn’t come close.
Facts…..
Enter ET stage right?
21 Jan 2013, 10:21 am
@Sheriff-46: Where did I say that?
If you have a question, by all means ask it, but me saying that everyone isn’t doing performance enhancing drugs does not mean that, by extension, only 1 person is doing it.
As for Armstrong, he needs to be condemned not just for cheating, but for systematically undermining the whole organization of cycling by bribing, coercing and bullying cyclists, officials and the press for years.
21 Jan 2013, 10:23 am
Driebal is going to be all over this like white on rice.
21 Jan 2013, 10:28 am
The use of banned substances are not confined to the so-called rugby schools only. My son knows boys in another school that had taken illegal substances during the previous year – some of it injected as well !! None of them were close to the WP teams!! This is quite scary IMO !!
Some non-rugby players are also using it “simply to look better”
21 Jan 2013, 10:28 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-47:
So we’re dealing here with jealousy?
The others could match him in using the substances but could not match his performances. That’s sounds reasonable. I can tick that one off the list.
And OWN’s involvement? OWN = Oprah Winfrey Network
21 Jan 2013, 10:30 am
@gunther-49:
I see he is super-committed to ‘convincing’ us all that he is indeed in the U(niversity) S(tellenbosch) of A (block)flashing his danglybits at graduate students; by posting at all sorts of authentic times.
Neilanate seems to have gone walkabout though since ET has risen from the dead. I guess Neilanate and ‘Jokers’ are his Saffa alters……
21 Jan 2013, 10:30 am
@stormersboy-48:
Par 1: Just sounded lie you implied it
Par 2: I asked my question
Par 3: I see. How does Oprah Winfrey fit into all this?
21 Jan 2013, 10:33 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-52:
Nellygwat and Jokers are at badminton and ping ping camps.
21 Jan 2013, 10:36 am
Not only should they have random drug testing at the schools and clubs but the junior provincial teams should commit to blanket testing if they are serious about sorting this.
And a three month suspension?
If you are caught taking drugs at school it’s expulsion surely?
21 Jan 2013, 10:37 am
@CharlesM-50: True. Although as a rule the injectables can actually be healthier than the oral variety. Less strain on the internal organs.
21 Jan 2013, 10:42 am
@stormersboy-56: I didn’t know that – must still be harmful though
21 Jan 2013, 10:44 am
@Sheriff-53: Why does she have to fit into anything? She’s all about herself and the scoop.
21 Jan 2013, 10:48 am
@stormersboy-58:
No man.
She barely fits in to anything as it is.
21 Jan 2013, 10:49 am
@Sheriff-51: Very few agree with my take on the Armstrong thing. Yes, he lied, “cheated” (although he had no clear advantage IMHO), yet my take is that he is STILL a worthy champs amongst those he was up against due to their own doping programs at the time.
Personally, they should legalise doping in professional cycling and get it over with.I know it’s not a popular opinion.
But anyone telling me EPO, your own blood pumped back into you etc etc is ENOUGH to get your butt over the Alps without any real athletic ability, supreme aerobic fitness, endurance etc etc, is on the same cheapcrack ET buys at discount prices.
Lance contacted Winfrey…..and she jumped at the chance. Huge viewing numbers.
21 Jan 2013, 10:50 am
@gunther-54: Remember, that one time, at band camp……..
21 Jan 2013, 10:53 am
@gunther-59: Eish. That visual will stay with me for the rest of the day now.
21 Jan 2013, 10:54 am
I@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-60:
Lets go one step further.
Legalise all doping.
The dopest doper wins.
21 Jan 2013, 10:56 am
@stormersboy-58:
@gunther-59:
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-61:
hahaha…
funny stuff…
21 Jan 2013, 10:56 am
Ok, this is rather funny though……. even though I believe Lance has been hung out to dry by a corrupt sporting discipine.
http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/Cycling/Oz-library-taunts-Armstrong-20130121
21 Jan 2013, 10:58 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-61:
When ET shoved a flute up his ***** and played the Star Spangled Banner?
21 Jan 2013, 10:58 am
@gunther-63: I don’t think cycing or athletics is EVER going to be clean, EVER. So legalise the sh y te, and let them be ‘all that they can be’. The best athlete is still going to come out on top
21 Jan 2013, 11:01 am
@gunther-63:
that will revive dopey’s career as a tossee in the dwarf tossing championships…
can’t see doc, grumpy, sneezy, sleepy, or bashful being too pleased…
but happy always is…
in the end…
21 Jan 2013, 11:04 am
@ufo-68:
You mean they’ll bench Keo again?
21 Jan 2013, 11:06 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-67:
i’d still go with compulsory lie-detctor tests in tandem with drug testing as discussed a little while ago…
21 Jan 2013, 11:07 am
@gunther-69:
hehehe
and all he did was kiss snow white…!!??
21 Jan 2013, 11:10 am
@gunther-66: Correct. What I remember most, is the sweet soprano grunts of 2nd ‘alter’ Neilanate as said flute entered the host’s (ET;s) r-e-c-t-u-m.
Pingfuckingpongchamp.
21 Jan 2013, 11:13 am
@ufo-70: Practically STILL the best idea I’ve heard. How to enforce it, the issue? And I guess the dude administering the test will have to purer than the driven snow as well. Payoffs and cycling seem to stroll hand in hand on the edge of the sand
The UCI are the ones who should be on ‘public trial’, not the cyclists.
21 Jan 2013, 11:14 am
O say can you see….
21 Jan 2013, 11:15 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-67: It’s a tricky issue. To an extent many sporting bodies have tacitly acknowledged how hard it is to regulate the testing because the human body varies so greatly from one person to another. So what is an abnormal testosterone level in one person may be normal in another.
The problem with legalising doping is that it won’t be long before people are killing themselves over the chance to gain an unfair advantage,
Take EPO for example. It’s main goal in doping is to facilitate a higher red blood cell count (they carry the oxygen so therefore endurance athletes will get a distinct advantage with higher levels) in the body. The problem is that the blood mix thickens up and at a certain level will become too thick to be pumped around the body, leading to either heart failure from over stress or simply multiple organ failure from having syrup instead of water in your body.
So if one person goes so far, the next will push it a step further.
It just makes no sense to let people regulate themselves when so much is at stake in my opinion. The knock on effect is potentially tragic when you thing of how the young amateurs would be affected, kids doping, it would be a much bigger mess in a very short time IMO.
The whole genetic passport way of testing shows a great deal of promise in regulating this area a lot more effectively.
21 Jan 2013, 11:20 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-73:
have everyone tested once a year as part of their off/pre-season training… and then random tests throughout the year just like drugs…
there are quite a few private lie detector people around… mostly ex police… they do the job for corporates… so shouldn’t be too difficult to sort out on an affordable (both ways) retainer… or saru could employ a team of them to fly round the country and test everyone…
21 Jan 2013, 11:23 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-73: imo…if lance gained advantage over just ONE non-doping athlete in each of those tours, he is fcukencheat klaar…he is no champ.
21 Jan 2013, 11:25 am
@stormersboy-75: EPO quite literally turns blood to sludge. Reading some of the accounts, it’s a tricky thing to manage as well. You need to get your heart rate right up there after using it, in order to halt the sludge making process, or something to that effect.
It seems quite a few EPO tragedies haven’t even made the news. In David Walsh’s book he mentions a few incidents.
I still reckon though, where there are humans involved (flawed flawed flawed), be it with the testing, the lab work etc etc, there is a chance to manipulate and corrupt, which would negate even the boldest/best efforts of the anti-doping movement.
Fellas ‘born to compete’ at this level (most of them narcississts or even borderline sociopaths – which is why they are so successful)are still going to ‘win at all costs’.
I don’t see how this practice can be removed from sport, any more than I can see how violent crime can be removed from our society.
I know I sound like a negative Nelly, but this is honestly my take on it.
21 Jan 2013, 11:28 am
@Transformation-77: I don’t have many that agree with me on this, and I can understand why
Eish, maybe I am as ‘flawedandfuckedup’ as Lance…
Oh dear, where does all of this leave me and my friendship with ET I wonder…..
21 Jan 2013, 11:28 am
I’m with KING10 EC on this one.
21 Jan 2013, 11:29 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-78: You are correct in that people will always try and cheat the system, in all aspects of life, but at the same time I think that is exactly why the fight should be fought, even if they are always playing “catch-up”
Ross Tucker wrote an excellent article on the issue on news 24, which goes into Lance and how he got away with it when others didn’t, and what went down behind the scenes.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Columnists/RossTucker/Science-says-Lances-a-liar-20130121
Worth a read.
21 Jan 2013, 11:34 am
@stormersboy-81: Thanks! @gunther-80: I realise I am on an island here….throwmeafrikkingboneplease. Livestrong….
21 Jan 2013, 11:37 am
@stormersboy-48: As for Armstrong, he needs to be condemned not just for cheating, but for systematically undermining the whole organization of cycling by bribing, coercing and bullying cyclists, officials and the press for years.
One man? did all this? intimidated the whole cycling world.
What about the rest…… the doctors, the officials, the team mates, trainers and generally the whole lot…. ?
The catharsis will commence.
Dope mafioso 1: Lance is going to admit….
Dr U Gee: We need fall guys, I’m not going down for this…..
21 Jan 2013, 11:49 am
@shooter-83: It certainly wasn’t just him, but many of the other players have been brought to book. More to come i expect though.
21 Jan 2013, 11:51 am
@stormersboy-84: ja, off course it wasn’t, just read the link you provided.
Already tired of the soap opera this is going to 9even more) , turn out to be.
21 Jan 2013, 11:52 am
Crusaders coach Todd Blackadder believes that New Zealand bad boy Zac Guildford is in need of professional help for what he regards as a “deeply rooted” alcohol problem.
The troubled All Black wing, Guildford, stepped down from his Super Rugby side, the Crusaders, and faces misconduct proceedings after another off-field incident.
Blackadder told reporters the latest incident was “very, very serious” and he stood by the previous warning to Guildford.
The 23-year-old Guilford admitted to having been involved in a serious incident after attending a private house party in Christchurch earlier this month.
The incident follows a series of misdemeanours involving Guildford, who is on his final warning after several misconduct charges by his employer, the New Zealand Rugby Union.
While details of exactly what happen remain speculative, Blackadder says that there is a deeply rooted problem that Guildford needs to sort out.
“I could say that there was alcohol involved and sure when the facts come alight I think that everyone will realise that there is a deeper issue here,” Blackadder said.
“I just hope for Zac that we can get the right outcome and get the support that he needs because there is a problem.”
In 2011, Guildford was suspended for four weeks following an NZRU misconduct hearing into a booze-fuelled night in Rarotonga.
He missed one Super Rugby match and three Crusaders pre-season fixtures and was ordered to undergo alcohol treatment and counselling at his own expense.
“The one thing I do know is that this isn’t actually a rugby thing now,” he said.
“This is about Zac getting the right professional help and actually seeing it though and basically curing and healing himself from the inside out because even last Sunday when he had acted inappropriately and was really disappointed you could honestly see the genuine hurt and the shame and the embarrassment of it all yet he keeps doing it.
“I think that he needs to get the help beyond football just to get his life back on track to be honest because obviously these things don’t only hurt him but also hurt the organisation that he represents and also his family.”
The woman who’s helping cricketer Jesse Ryder turn his life around believes he and Guildford could be symptomatic of bigger problems in professional sport.
“I think the level of clinical issues and psychological issues is definitely on the rise both because we have a generation of young men who are just coming through and they haven’t known anything else,” psychologist Karen Nimmo told ONE News.
The NZRU won’t comment at this stage but they will hold a misconduct hearing with Guildford later in the week and there is the real possibility that he could become the first Crusaders player to have his contract torn up.
“I mean Zac’s been given a lot of opportunities to basically sort his stuff out which he hasn’t,” Blackadder said.
However if the NZRU and Crusaders do cut him loose, there will still be a place in New Zealand for Guildford to go.
“If he was to be available for Hawke’s Bay rugby in 2013 there’s no question we’d select Zac,” Hawke’s Bay CEO Mike Bishop said
But the appeal of playing NPC rugby only would have little appeal for a player of Guildford’s stature.
Which means a move overseas would most certainly be on the cards should the hearing result in his NZRU contract being terminated
21 Jan 2013, 11:52 am
seamles – from celebrity to reality Tv star. Still better it seems.
attention craving mofos.
21 Jan 2013, 11:58 am
@shooter-87: he is that for sure.
21 Jan 2013, 11:59 am
How come two Iron Man athletes both died of heart attacks over the past weekend.
Same tournament, same event, swimming
21 Jan 2013, 12:02 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-60:
I agree with you that Armstrong was the best Tour de France cyclist of his generation.
An overview of the top ten finishers in ALL 7 tours he won showed that just over 80% of them either tested positive at some stage during their careers, or were sanctioned without testing positive, or admitted to doping without a positive test or sanction or were accused of doping at some or other stage.
So, in my view he was the best of a bunch of dopers. It is not surprising that the organisors have decided not to award his winners jerseys to anybody else as there is probably nobody worthwhile to award it to.
21 Jan 2013, 12:04 pm
@shooter-83: Exactly. One man alone is to blame for the mess that is international cycling full stop?
Rather convenient isn’t it?
And if one takes this a step further….. everyone KNEW that despite the denials all round, doping was rife, actively encouraged and covered up when required. The sponsors knew this…..all the athletes knew this……the officials knew this…..the public knew this……and the UCI, IOC and the like ALSO all knew this.
The whole world knew…..yet now the ‘whole world’ is deeply hurt and upset?
Sponsors withdrawing? They knew all along….
The UCI manwhinging? They knew all along…..
The IOC talking about taking cycling outta the games? They knew all along….
But Lance get’s to wear the Scarlet Letter….
21 Jan 2013, 12:08 pm
@Robzim-90:
Great article on News24 by Dr Ross Tucker on just how ridiculous this ‘oh well everyone was doing it so it fine, he must have been the best’ feeling toward Lance is.
Really informative from a specialist in the field of sports science.
21 Jan 2013, 12:08 pm
@Dawn-89:
It is very weird- it’s unlikely that they “overextended” as triathletes usually dont push so hard during the swim in order to conserve energy for the cycle and run – its probably just one of those freakish things that happened.
21 Jan 2013, 12:11 pm
@Dawn-89: Let’s see what their blood work says. As you well know, I could have done with a little assistance from a vial yesterday
Het amper nie die huis gemaak nie.
21 Jan 2013, 12:17 pm
@John Galt-92: He was still the best. To win the tour as many times as he, even doping at the time, is a huge achievement. None of the other dopers could do it……
I am finding it rather wacko and sick that 98% of the world is simply saying that Lance’s supreme mental strength, physical conditioning, aerobic fitness, sport specific endurance etc etc contributed to his success in any way, shape or form.
This is nuts fellas. If he ONLY won because of the doping; part timer morons such as you or I should be able to inject, get on our bikes and kick the buttholes of all and sundry in the Alps.
Denying that the man is an elite and supreme athlete, is criminal.
21 Jan 2013, 12:18 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-95: OOOOOPS. 98% of the world is simpy saying that Lance’s supreme mental strength, physical conditioning etc etc etc DID NOT CONTRIBUTE to his success in any way, shape or form.
21 Jan 2013, 12:21 pm
@John Galt-92: I put the link in post 81. It’s an excellent article.
21 Jan 2013, 12:23 pm
@John Galt-92:
It’s an interesting read. Lets wait for the whole thing to unravel, i am sure there will a lot more to follow on the issue.
The fact is that nobody can dispute that Armstrong is a phenomenal athlete – he was for example competing on the professional triathlon circuit at the age of 15 and even at that age finished regularly in the top positions amongst legends of the sport (Dave Scott, Scott Tinly, Mark Allen etc..) He certainly did not dope then (poor upbringing, single parentmother, no money for dope etc…)
What is scary is that he was considered to be a better swimmer than cyclist at one atage of his career.
He also won a USA Navy Seals triathlon about two months ago smashing the previous record by about 10 minutes beating a current olympion and a former world duathlon champion (he eventually outran the bloke!) in the process – remember he is already 41 and its unlikely that he could train properly taking into consideration the turnmoil his life must be in over the last few months.
He is a cheat and not a nice person but certainly one of the best endurance athletes in the history of sport.
21 Jan 2013, 12:29 pm
@Robzim-98: Amen to that! No substance on earth assists one THAT much…
The man is a supreme athlete – the end.
(Nice person, NO. Role model, NO. Very dodgy personality disorders, YES – part of what made him a champ to begin with sad to say)
21 Jan 2013, 12:29 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-78:
Lance hounded David Walsh with threats and even accused him of having a vendetta against him because his son, who was killed in a cycling accident, took up the sport because of Lance.
The man is just a nasty piece of work.
21 Jan 2013, 12:32 pm
@stormersboy-97:
Ah yes. Sorry missed that.
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-95:
Yeah I must say, I vascilate between what you said in this post and what Transie said earlier.
Which was basically, if there was just one other dude who wasnt doping then he is just a cheat. And only a cheat. Nothing else. This part of me says ‘I dont care whether he was a superior mentally or physically.’ He is nothing more than criminal who got away with it and should never be recognised as anything but that. Harsh but fair.
21 Jan 2013, 12:37 pm
@stormersboy-75:
Only have to google all the WWF Wrestlers who have died from heart failure and suicide from prolonged steroid abuse.
21 Jan 2013, 12:39 pm
@David-100: I’m separating the gifted athlete from the sociopath here.
See my post 99.
Sociopath, Narcissist, twat etc etc etc – all fair calls.
But a gifted and supreme athlete none the less.
21 Jan 2013, 12:45 pm
@Robzim-98:
“He is a cheat and not a nice person but certainly one of the best endurance athletes in the history of sport.”
The two don’t go together.
21 Jan 2013, 12:52 pm
Sorry, Pedigreefool,but Lance Armstrong isn’t the greatest cyclist of all time.He got nothing,zero,zilch titles to be considerd as one of the greats.He will go down as the greatest cheat in the history of cycling.He has been found out as a drugs cheat,fraudster and fake.You are making sweeping statements to say that everybody cheated.Give us the proof.Armstrong deceived everyone connected to cycling…and that will be his legacy for generations to come.Armstrong and Ben Johnson will go down in sporting history as the greatest cheats and liars of our era.
21 Jan 2013, 12:57 pm
@Dawn-104:
Doping can not turn a chump into a champ.
You must also read it in the context of the culture and extend of doping (cheating) in professional cycling.
Even the great Eddy Merckx (widely considered as the best cyclist of all time) has tested positive during his career. Today he is seen as a hero by millions.
The Armstrong saga is only the tip of the iceberg- read this article re doping in soccer for example:
http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1786/fifa/2013/01/18/3682007/soccer-must-follow-lance-armstrong-and-admit-it-has-a-doping
21 Jan 2013, 13:02 pm
“He also won a USA Navy Seals triathlon about two months ago smashing the previous record by about 10 minutes beating a current olympion and a former world duathlon champion (he eventually outran the bloke!) in the process – remember he is already 41 and its unlikely that he could train properly taking into consideration the turnmoil his life must be in over the last few months.”
How did he do this if he was “clean” at the time?
21 Jan 2013, 13:06 pm
@wnbb-105: Denying that Armstrong or Johnson for that matter, were supremely gifted athletes is foolish. Even the finest ‘performance enhancer’ needs superior raw material to work with…..
As Robzim said earlier….who do they give Lance’s titles to, and why haven’t they awarded them to someone?
You’ve got to go back to the fella who finished 175th to find the 1st cyclist with a 100% dope free record. So I guess it’s him then? Yet they haven’t awarded those titles to ANYONE. Why isn’t the dude who came 175th and is allegedly clean protesting in pubic and demanding his title/s?
21 Jan 2013, 13:07 pm
Sydney – An Australian library has found itself in the spotlight after it put up a sign declaring all books by disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong would soon be moved to the fiction section.
The notice posted by a part-time staffer at Manly Library read: “All non-fiction Lance Armstrong books, including ‘Lance Armstrong: Images of a Champion’, ‘The Lance Armstrong Performance Program’ and ‘Lance Armstrong: The World’s Greatest Champion’ will soon be moved to the fiction section”.
21 Jan 2013, 13:08 pm
@Robzim-106: Who was the fella who died doing the tour in the 60′s I think? His blood was full of ‘substances’ and alcohol at the time?
That’s how far back it goes………
21 Jan 2013, 13:12 pm
Ok. All things aside…this has to be the comment of the year re: Armstrong. A hilarious poster on News24 says:
“I am actually impressed by what Lance Armstrong has accomplished. When I was on drugs, I couldn’t even find my bike”
Preshen Govender.
21 Jan 2013, 13:13 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-108:
i call b#[[$hit
if Armstrong was even half as incredible as you say he was, why didn’t he do it without drugs?
the guy’s a drug taking cheat with a thoroughly dislikeable personality to boot.
***** him
and ***** his drug enhanced achievements too.
21 Jan 2013, 13:17 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-110:
Ja, i think it was Tom Simpson from England.
The story goes that they picked him up on the slopes of the Alps or Pirenees – he was already semi – unconcious but begged them to put him back on his bike and muttered something like : ” Must go on..must go on.!..
Cycling at that level is about who can handle the suffering the most so i guess the substances pushed him over the limits that his body could take.
21 Jan 2013, 13:23 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-112: Ok Bakkies, now tell me how you really feel
I really am aware that very few people share my opinion, and that’s fine.
I see him as the finest cyclist of his generation – klaar.
(Just reflect on this though: When people like Mike Haysman are writing columns on how ‘disgusting, crooked and evil’ Lance is, yet remaining rather quiet when it comes to rants and tantrums on match fixing and cheating in cricket; you HAVE to wonder just why it is the world has lost the plot completely in terms of Lance and his ‘sins’. Does it make the planet ‘feel better’ if they all join in the crucifixion? Do they think that their lies and cheating in everyday life is somehow “less harmful or evil” than Lance’s?
I expect to see the same moral outrage throughout the world, in all future incidents of doping, cheating, match fixing, corruption, payoffs etc – big or small…..(as there is no Dante’s Inferno with various levels of ‘sin’.)
21 Jan 2013, 13:33 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-108: Give us the proof or shut the fark up.Harping on about them not awarding the titles to anyone else doesn’t cut it .
21 Jan 2013, 13:35 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-114:
Ja ek het dieselfde probleem gehad, maar ek was ‘n slim Jan.
21 Jan 2013, 13:37 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-114:
it should be treated the same, regardless.
correct me if i’m worng but didn’t Bradley Wiggins compete in the TdF from about 2007 to the present? if the 100 & odd c.unts ahead of him were not drug taking dooses he quite likely would have fared much, much better.
as long as there was even one person in that competition doing their honest best and playing by the rules, there is no argument or justification which will ever, ever make a person like Armstrong or that slimy, strange looking Spaniard or anyone for that matter come off in a deserving or somewhat better light.
they unfairly took what never should have been theirs from others who have now lost out in the annals of history the reward and honour of having their story told.
(incidentally, this is the same way i feel about NZ rugby).
21 Jan 2013, 13:38 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-114:
Yes match fixing.
It only happened recently with the blackcaps beating the proteas….. this game needs to be checked.
21 Jan 2013, 13:39 pm
What a bunch of morons,these two Armstrong apologists!How sweet to see them cozying up to each other trying to convince the world that Lance is a sound bloke and is still the greates of all the cheats.The fact that that assertion is ethically and morally wrong doesn’t register on their radar beggars belief.
21 Jan 2013, 13:40 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-117:
“(incidentally, this is the same way i feel about NZ rugby).”
The way you feel about NZ rugby is a pathetic joke with not one bit of proof of any of the dumb claims you have bought up.
Blah blah blah.
21 Jan 2013, 13:41 pm
Federer….machine …
21 Jan 2013, 13:42 pm
Just as well Armstrong is not a Kiwi….Bakkies would be bloody unplayable…
21 Jan 2013, 13:44 pm
@grant10-122:
Die Blou Bul Unie het ‘n goeie storie vir Britney uitgedink. Mooi na hom gekyk.
21 Jan 2013, 13:45 pm
@wnbb-119:
Ag, just get off your high horse. The way you are carrying on one would say you have never cripped at primary school
21 Jan 2013, 13:46 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-117:
Why is this needed in SA, you’ve told us how clean and fair you play your rugby without cheating etc surely this is a waste of time and money as nobody in SA would contemplate doing this ?
21 Jan 2013, 13:47 pm
@wnbb-119: Two people can’t be a ‘bunch’ of morons…….. This makes little sense, What a bunch of morons, these two Armstrong apologists. FYI of course.
The proof is on the world wide web for all to see my friend. Type in the names of the top cyclists from the last 12 years. Remembering that Lance last won the TDF in 2005….
Take a peek.
@Britney Spies-116:
@Hurricane-118: Don’t get Bakkies started….A well deserved win that was. I was there in that Paarl heat….to witness the Mcullums air punching….
21 Jan 2013, 13:47 pm
@Hurricane-120:
i’m not here to get into an argument with you.
it is my opinion, and that is that.
one country has unfairly taken what should never have belonged to it from another country, and that country has now lost out in the annals of history the reward and honour of having its story told.
slice it and dice it however you like
cheating is cheating
(for what its worth, we expose our dopers)
21 Jan 2013, 13:48 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-126:
Bakkies vloek my tot in volgende week.
21 Jan 2013, 13:48 pm
Federer reaches his 137 th consecutive Grand Slam quarter finals…..
Vokkit…
21 Jan 2013, 13:49 pm
surelythat cant be right? He would need to be about 70 !
21 Jan 2013, 13:49 pm
@Robzim-124: This is my point exactly. Lance has become a ‘modern day Hitler’, to be hated and pelted from all corners, because it makes people feel better about their own lies, deception and cheating in general….
How wonderful to have someone else to pelt?
21 Jan 2013, 13:50 pm
@grant10-129:
Tomic van doer onder het mos gese hy gaan hom ‘n tennis les gee. Die dom donner.
21 Jan 2013, 13:51 pm
@NZINCHINA-125:
Bakkies will be hunting the Kiwi newspapers to find a comeback
21 Jan 2013, 13:51 pm
@Britney Spies-128: Can you tell me Britney, just why it was that you went to Italy (yes ITALY….) on a ‘pre planned’ holiday, just before the 2011 World Cup, when the rest of the Bok squad were already in training camp?
21 Jan 2013, 13:52 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-134:
Ek mag nie die Dokters se naam se nie. Vra vir Lance!
21 Jan 2013, 13:52 pm
@NZINCHINA-125:
we make every effort to out drugging or cheating of any kind, China
you can be sure of that.
and to the drug takers we don’t catch…’you are dooses’
21 Jan 2013, 13:53 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-127:
Well is drug cheats cheating?
Didnt Goosen get caught with drugs in his blood?
It was an accident…like the bok players that were sent home during a tour a few years ago…another accident. Makes you wonder does it not?
21 Jan 2013, 13:54 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-131:
I see that the story of Armstrong might be heading for the big screen as Star Trek director JJ Abrams has optioned the forthcoming book “Cycle of lies: The fall of L.A. by a New York Times reporter with the intention of turning it into a high – profile film.
Maybe they can get ET to play the role as his “procecutor” .
Bakkies can play the role of an angel or something
21 Jan 2013, 13:54 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-136:
Die blou bul eet nie van die vloer af nie.
21 Jan 2013, 13:54 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-126: Will you be happy with ‘ two farking morons’?
21 Jan 2013, 13:54 pm
I wonder if, say the 2005 tour de france was recycled without any drug involvement from any competitor (guaranteed), who would win?
I’ve got a suspicion it would still be Armstrong.
21 Jan 2013, 13:55 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-136:
Well it seems your players are not listening .
18 of 62 were positive…… damn that is a huge amount. …disgusting really.
21 Jan 2013, 13:55 pm
@Hurricane-133:
He he if what old Bakkies says is true they’ll test millions and won’t find a single person.
21 Jan 2013, 13:57 pm
@Hurricane-142:
What you fail to understand is that those 18 had just returned from a rugby tour to Auckland. Nou daar le die ding.
21 Jan 2013, 13:57 pm
@NZINCHINA-143:
They have only tested 62 in 6 months… there is alot more rugby players in SA.
21 Jan 2013, 13:58 pm
@Britney Spies-144:
Bet they lost as well.
21 Jan 2013, 14:00 pm
@Britney Spies-135: Dr Doolittle?
@Hurricane-137: This is my point about cheating/doping/lying in any way, shape or form. It’s the same thing…..yet Lance is being crucified as if had murdered 9000 Pygmy children, 350 senior citizens and an assortment of puppies….
Such is the ‘hate’. Why only him?
@wnbb-140: Indeed I will.
@TooMuchRugby-141: Of that I have zero doubt. The man’s true abiity has convenienty been forgotten in all this.
21 Jan 2013, 14:00 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-136:
You said there was no cheating in SA rugby of any sort, the cleanest and fairest rugby playing nation on earth, I’m going to have to reconsider watching SA teams now although with this new testing procedure I might change my mind I’ll let you know.
21 Jan 2013, 14:00 pm
@Hurricane-146:
No we found them and tested them. They were not lost.
21 Jan 2013, 14:01 pm
@Hurricane-142: Hurri, the schools here ate FULL of this sh y te. They are getting into gear now re: testing etc. Focusing on ‘out of season testing’ as well. That is where the true answers lie…..Out of season.
21 Jan 2013, 14:02 pm
@Robzim-138: ET goes to Hollywood? Frankie says Relax.
21 Jan 2013, 14:03 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-150:
Thats good.
21 Jan 2013, 14:03 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-134:
please Pedigree, i would expect something like that from Capo, not from you.
have the decency not to cast aspersions on an honest mans character. he my be a lot of things to you, i get it, and sure, he has not pleased many with his rugby but if Pierre says he did not do it, then i believe he did not do it.
besides, he was tested?
the man was suffering from a life threatening hereditary condition which claimed the life of his father for goodness sake!
@Britney Spies-139:
jy’s n idioot
21 Jan 2013, 14:06 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-153:
Nee dit weet ek en 80% van SA.
21 Jan 2013, 14:06 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-150:
I thought it was the Billtong that made the man mountains in the republic.
21 Jan 2013, 14:07 pm
@pedigree: pity for him he didn’t just stick to using that supreme athleticism to get him over the line! pity that he was arrogant enough to fcukup honest people’s lives either by insulting them or suing them. pity he is still ridiculously arguing petty kak like “i didn’t call her ‘fat’” when he called he a “crazy b*tch & w*hore” – delusional stuff i tell you.
as i said earlier, if there was even just ONE non-gooned cyclist in those tours, lance is a bloody cheat!
there are no degrees of cheating as far as i’m concerned.
21 Jan 2013, 14:07 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-153:
Bakkies Ped reckons all your school boys are on the juice, oh dear.
21 Jan 2013, 14:07 pm
@NZINCHINA-155:
Actually it is.
Their sellers name is Bill Tong.
21 Jan 2013, 14:07 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-153:
Ja Bakkies. Dom bly dom. Glo wat ons wil glo.
21 Jan 2013, 14:09 pm
Is it possible that Armstrong only came to cycling prominence due to an advance program of systematic drugging?What happened in his early career as a professional?Is it safe to say that his career probably followed the same path as an averaged Ben Johnson starting out in athletics.
In 1994, he again won the Thrift Drug Classic and came second in the Tour DuPont in the United States. His successes in Europe occurred when he placed second in Liège–Bastogne–Liège and the Clásica de San Sebastián, where just two years before, he had finished in last place as his first all-pro event in Europe.
21 Jan 2013, 14:09 pm
@Hurricane-158:
I’m confused Hurricane old Bakkies has been telling us for years now how clean SA rugby is ” hard but fair China”, somebodies telling porkies.
21 Jan 2013, 14:09 pm
@Hurricane-137:
there was a high level investigation and the players involved were completely exhonerated since.
i think you owe them an apology.
@Hurricane-142:
it is shocking to be honest
shocking
i hope this will be a wake up call
@NZINCHINA-148:
to be horribly honest, this has taken us all by surprise
the scale of it amongst schoollboys..?.
eternal vigilance i guess
21 Jan 2013, 14:10 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-153: Bakkies. Twas said in jest, as a ‘legit’ question to fellow blogger; “Britney Spies”, who answered in jest. See it as such.
But I do find this interesting:
“but if Pierre says he did not do it, then i believe he did not do it.
besides, he was tested?”
Just take Pierre’s name out, and put Lance’s in……….
21 Jan 2013, 14:11 pm
@NZINCHINA-157: Not all….. quite a few though (as you can see from the testing results)
21 Jan 2013, 14:12 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-163:
Dankie vir die verwelkoming. Waardeur dit!
21 Jan 2013, 14:13 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-162:
I’d hate to think any of them played in the U20 cup last year juiced up, a rigged cup perhaps?
21 Jan 2013, 14:15 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-153: I would never accuse Spies of drug taking!He is so kuk that no drug would rectify the situation .
21 Jan 2013, 14:15 pm
@NZINCHINA-166:
lol
I was thinking the same thing.
In fact not only drugged but probably had 23 years olds playing under false credentials…… oh boy it is not looking good for the clean South African rugby thats we all have heard so much about
21 Jan 2013, 14:16 pm
@wnbb-167:
Yes, Spies was a laxative abuser…. like Bakkies after a loss
21 Jan 2013, 14:17 pm
@Transformation-156: He’s a cnut and worse….of that there is no argument.
But just because he’s a fkcadilly, doesn’t mean he is any less a supreme athlete.
Separate boxes.
21 Jan 2013, 14:17 pm
@Britney Spies-154:
snaaks
21 Jan 2013, 14:18 pm
@Hurricane-168:
He he Like I said Hurri I’m in complete shock, I’m going to have to reconsider watching SA teams from now on, clean AnZaC games only for me.
21 Jan 2013, 14:19 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-171:
21 Jan 2013, 14:19 pm
@NZINCHINA-157:
Pedigree, can be a little melodramatic to say the least, China
take what she says with a pinch of salt (or soya).
21 Jan 2013, 14:20 pm
I think that the dealers would feel uncomfortable selling performance-enhanced drugs to Pierre Spies.
21 Jan 2013, 14:20 pm
@grant10-130: Courier was joking – I think it is 39th consecutive (into the 10th year)
21 Jan 2013, 14:22 pm
@wnbb-175:
I run through walls. Wat is jou probleem?
21 Jan 2013, 14:22 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-163:
Pierre is an upright christian.
big difference.
21 Jan 2013, 14:22 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-174: No Bakkies. The numbers are here. Above. For all to see…..
They do not make for pleasant reading.
21 Jan 2013, 14:23 pm
@NZINCHINA-172:
Me too. I was told by Bakkies that we were the cheats of rugby and South Africa were fair and did not cheat.
What am i going to tell my kids now?
21 Jan 2013, 14:24 pm
i have a mini meeting, sorry
will be back
21 Jan 2013, 14:24 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-178: You can’t farking preach your way through a rugby pack of devils.Maybe that’s his problem?
21 Jan 2013, 14:25 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-181:
Hmmmm is that code for a hit?
21 Jan 2013, 14:26 pm
Well i think if he all took enhancements we could get 30000 posts out of this thread.
21 Jan 2013, 14:27 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-178: So was Hansie…. and look at what the devil made HIM do.
Just saying…. we are talking about people here….flawed people. All of us.
21 Jan 2013, 14:27 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-178:
Are U serious?
hansie C was also an upright christian
21 Jan 2013, 14:28 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-185:
Speak for yourself.
“All of us”. Not Bakkies Pedi.
Is V iagra a performance enhancing drug?
21 Jan 2013, 14:30 pm
@Robzim-186:
Reminds me of that advert on telly.
Seriouuuuuuuuusssssss
21 Jan 2013, 14:30 pm
The ‘two farking Armstrong apologists’ hunting together now?How schweeeeet !!
21 Jan 2013, 14:30 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-178:
What if i said McCaw is a christian as well?
21 Jan 2013, 14:31 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-185:
Sorry ,i did not see your post re Hansie.
Remember Jaco van der Westhuizen who once claimed he tried a drop from his own 25 m line to convince the ref that he has not dropped a ball?
Attempting to cheat is just as bad as the real thing..
21 Jan 2013, 14:32 pm
On Lance Armstrong:
If you win a race in which everyone else also cheat, are you not considered the winner of that race?
21 Jan 2013, 14:32 pm
@David….I agree with that last sentence and up you one to he is also a reprehensible attention seeking, sympathy seeking meglamaniac (sp) bully.
He will shrivel up and wither away if ignored, that’s what the world and press should do, best punishment.
21 Jan 2013, 14:34 pm
They can easily question Hansie and Christianity’s role in turning out to be a cheat,but they steadfastly refused to accept that the world has accepted Armstrong as a drugs cheat and a liar.
21 Jan 2013, 14:36 pm
I also read somewhere a while back his best position before he won the Tour France was 15. I stand to be corrected here though.
21 Jan 2013, 14:36 pm
@wnbb-189:
Dont worry, your hunting partner will also appear a bit later all the way from the “US of A” .
21 Jan 2013, 14:36 pm
@willievz-192: There is no proof that anyone else cheated in all those races that the ‘two farking apologists’ hero participated in.Fact.
21 Jan 2013, 14:39 pm
I matriculated in 1990 and it was going on back then. No surprises that it still goes on today. I understand some school coaches and parents encourage it.
21 Jan 2013, 14:41 pm
In 1992 Armstrong ended last in his first European Tour.In 1994 he won that same race.Interesting fact that.His two apologists might jump to his defence and say that it was only through hard work and dedication that he was successful.I suspect that he started taking drugs whilst still an amateur rider.Lance is still lying through his teeth.He needs to totally come clean on his drug taking.
21 Jan 2013, 14:42 pm
@DEE DAH-198:
It’s coached into them, this just gets better and better.
21 Jan 2013, 14:43 pm
@Britney Spies-187:
I like you Britney.
@Robzim-191: And another AMEN to that.
@willievz-192: No Willie, you do not want to be seen sitting on the same bike as Robzim and I. ET and the Moralievers won’t like it.
21 Jan 2013, 14:43 pm
@wnbb-199: should read first European tour race.( not the TDF). Just in case his apologists throw a tantrum .
21 Jan 2013, 14:45 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-201: I simply asked a question.
21 Jan 2013, 14:46 pm
@wnbb-199:
Yep…the Mengele of Drug Cheats…
@NZINCHINA-200:
China…this is not going well for our friend…Houston
21 Jan 2013, 14:47 pm
@wnbb-197: Is it fair to say that a rider who has tested positive at least once in his career is a doper? Yes or no?
If yes: I invite you once more to type in a few names from the 2005/2005 tour. No, go back further if you must….
I’m not going to provide you with names, as you will then say that I have given you only names of fellas I know have doped….
Pick a few names, any names……. Give us your feedback.
21 Jan 2013, 14:47 pm
@wnbb-197:
“There is no proof that anyone else cheated in all those races that the ‘two farking apologists’ hero participated in.Fact.”
No Proof that anyone else cheated??
I know you just stirring but please read this for background on doping at the Tour de France:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France
21 Jan 2013, 14:48 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-201:
21 Jan 2013, 14:49 pm
@willievz-203: It is the wrong question.
It implies that you also reckon the whole peleton was doped to the eyeballs….not just Lance…
And the moralievers don’t want to know too much about that.
21 Jan 2013, 14:51 pm
@Te Rangatira-204:
He he oh dear I was going to have an early one I think I’ll ang around and see what unfolds…
21 Jan 2013, 14:53 pm
@Robzim-206: Folk do not want to know these truths…… And simly put, the entire planet knows that the TDF is a dope or choke show – the end.
Hence my disgust at sponsors “shock”, the UCI’s “shock” the moral citizens of the globe’s “shock”…..
No doping, No TDF in it’s current (or previous) form.
21 Jan 2013, 14:57 pm
@Te Rangatira-204:
Richard Young, an attorney for USADA, rejected that argument and instead likened Armstrong to the leader of a drug cartel in an era or rampant drug use.
If Armstrong had cooperated, he might have gotten a lighter sentence, Young says. But he didn’t, and Young says the massive amount of evidence pointed to Armstrong as the ringleader of an elaborate scheme to cheat and avoid detection.
“The guy who is the head of the cartel is in a different position in terms of treatment than either the dealer on street or guy that you catch (using drugs),” Young says. “His role was significantly different than other riders.”
Copyright 2012 USATODAY.com
21 Jan 2013, 14:58 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-170: “supreme athlete” a juiced up richie mccaw would mean fokkol to me…lance relinquished any rights to being a credible sportsman when he gooned the 1st time…no moral high ground, just.a bloody cheat like marion jones. one guy, just one guy not doped up!
@willievz-192: “considered” by who? has it been proven beyond doubt that ALL those cyclists he raced against were on drugs?
21 Jan 2013, 15:01 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-210:
Fully agree.
Too easy to just jump on the bandwagon and throw stones at Armstrong.
I am going to miss a deadline due to this flippin blog.
Out for now. Cheers.
21 Jan 2013, 15:02 pm
“178.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha said:
21 Jan 2013, 14:22 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-163:
Pierre is an upright christian.
big difference.”
As opposed to bent double?
21 Jan 2013, 15:04 pm
@Robzim-206: No reason to stir.The truth of the matter is that the two of you can’t see past your hard on for Armstrong.He is the absolute all time druggie and cheat.There is still no evidence that all of cyclists used drugs during that period.More than 21 riders participated in all of those Tours back then.Oh yeah!,referencing Wiki now is just real smart!!BTW,I know pedigree might have difficulty with that,but she is behaving like a real d!c k on here in any case.
21 Jan 2013, 15:09 pm
@Transformation-212: There is one guy….the dutch rider….can’t think of his name now.
@wnbb-215: I stick to what I believe. You are all most welcome to what you believe. (Except ET, because he doesn’t really deserve anything….)
Bottom line: Armstrong is taking the fall for over 100 years of doping in cycling.
21 Jan 2013, 15:11 pm
Seven Deadly Sins: My pursuit of Lance Armstrong by David Walsh:
Walsh found it strange if you look at the 56k time trial. In 1993 Lance’s time was 6:03 slower than the winner, 1994 6:23 slower; 1995 6:24 slower than the winner. In 1999 after cancer treatment he won the time trial in one of the best times ever.
BTW, TDF winners Bjarne Riis (1996), Jan Ulrich (1997), Marco Pantani (1998), Floyd Landis and Alberto Contador (2010) all tested positive for banned substances
21 Jan 2013, 15:12 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-205: Armstrong set for hefty ban?
21 Jan 2013, 15:13 pm
@Hurricane-190:
well, then i would say he has some serious questions he needs to ask himself, deep within his soul.
you can run but you can never hide from the truth inside.
people pay lip service too easily to what it means to be moral, ethical or religious for that matter.
—— —— ——
sorry keo bloggers
very busy at the moment
will try to respond to posts
21 Jan 2013, 15:15 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-219:
Post 198 it’s coached into them, I think your halo just broke
21 Jan 2013, 15:16 pm
@Dawn-214:
Ok, saw that now…………..
21 Jan 2013, 15:17 pm
I wonder if it’s the same wiki that said Adidas, who is is the sponsor of WP since 1983 ,will be celebrating their 20th year of sponsoring WP rugby?
. Is it the same wiki that proclaims that the Dutch met Khoe and Xhosa tribes on their arrival at the Cape? 
21 Jan 2013, 15:17 pm
@shooter-218: That’s a 50 000 thread right there. ET will contribute most of the posts….
21 Jan 2013, 15:19 pm
Who else can shed some light on school boy doping in SA?
21 Jan 2013, 15:20 pm
@wnbb-222: Seriously though. The TDF has been dope on a rope since it’s inception.
Anyone thinking otherwise needs a reality upgrade.
21 Jan 2013, 15:21 pm
@NZINCHINA-224: It was being delivered to certain schools via courier….. Kids were getting the sh y te online as well. Parents have to know, because they’re paying for it.
21 Jan 2013, 15:23 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-226:
and this is widely known in SA and condoned?
21 Jan 2013, 15:27 pm
After finishing second in the U.S. Olympic time trials in 1992, Armstrong was favored to win the road race in Barcelona, Spain. With a surprisingly sluggish performance, however, he came in only 14th. Undeterred, Armstrong turned professional immediately after the Olympics, joining the Motorola cycling team for a respectable yearly salary. Though he came in dead last in his first professional event, the day-long San Sebastian Classic in Spain, he rebounded in two weeks and finished second in a World Cup race in Zurich, Switzerland.
Interesting.
21 Jan 2013, 15:29 pm
@NZINCHINA-227: I guess it’s condoned by certain parents, coaches etc. Otherwise it wouldn’t be as widespread.
Certainly not condoned by the entire rugby fraternity.
21 Jan 2013, 15:31 pm
@Dawn-214:
yes, hehehe i mean he is a good, honest christian man and not ‘standing up straight’.
upstanding i suppose is better than upright, which now that i read it, is rather funny hahaha
‘bent over double’ sounds fishy though..?.
@NZINCHINA-220:
with all due respect to the blogger, i think the anecdotal evidence of one blogger and a now uncovered episode of 18 schoolboys is not indicative of a large scale conspiracy.
but you know this.
21 Jan 2013, 15:32 pm
@wnbb-228: Are you another of ET’s ‘alter egos’? Please say it isn’t so…..
I might disagree with you, but I enjoy shooting the breeze with you. This would change, if it were made known that you are only another figment of ET’s imagination.
21 Jan 2013, 15:33 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-229:
And they finish school get picked up by the provinces and it stops or is there an issue higher up the tree as well?
21 Jan 2013, 15:34 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-230:
Is that you Lance?
21 Jan 2013, 15:35 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-230: “upstanding” is the term you were looking for quite possibly?
Bakkies, I’m quite certain every country in the world has similar issues with ‘doping’ amongst the younger fellas. It’s certainly not a Saffa specific problem. Rather out in the open than denying it exists or what say you?
21 Jan 2013, 15:36 pm
Well lets ask the punters then if they have ever experienced or heard of this is SA schools, two bloggers have already and 18 have tested positive recently.
21 Jan 2013, 15:39 pm
@NZINCHINA-232: Nope, most of the kids using (according to the latest report) are NOT 1st team players (those likely to be picked up by the unions)…. It’s the 2nd and 3rd team type fella, who feels that by using he might make it into the 1st team (which rarely happens it seems….). Because as I’ve been trying to say re: Lance, DOPING means nothing if the natural talent isn’t there….
21 Jan 2013, 15:40 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-236:
True! Ask me.
21 Jan 2013, 15:42 pm
@Transformation-212: Maybe not all.
But pretty much all.
Pretty much all of those TDF cyclists have tested positive at least once in their career.
21 Jan 2013, 15:42 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-231:
. Don’t be daft now!We will be friends again as soon as the Super15 starts.Can never discard a fellow Stormer in the battle against the guppy polluters. 
21 Jan 2013, 15:42 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-236:
That’s great to hear that it probably doesn’t exist higher up the tree, I hope there is a testing regime for international school boy tournaments though!
21 Jan 2013, 15:44 pm
@willievz-238:
Willie you seem to be on the inside, from your experience was there doping going on at SA schools? ( you are under oath)
21 Jan 2013, 15:48 pm
@NZINCHINA-241: Yes.
21 Jan 2013, 15:49 pm
@willievz-242:
Thanks for your honesty.
21 Jan 2013, 15:52 pm
Here are a list of top-finishers in the TDF that we know have tested positive in the last few years:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/08/24/sports/top-finishers-of-the-tour-de-france-tainted-by-doping.html
Is it just me, or does Levi Leipheimer bear a striking resemblance to Lance?
21 Jan 2013, 15:55 pm
@willievz-242: I was in high school MANY years ago…and it was going on then already…. Once more, those who deny it need a reality upgrade.
21 Jan 2013, 15:57 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-245:
And often it is the DAD that encourages the kid.
21 Jan 2013, 15:58 pm
I consider Miguel Indurain as the best cyclist in the modern era of the TDF.He also had his problems ,but can be considerd as the cleanest of all recent TDF winners.He is a true legend of the TDF,not Armstrong.Ok,before the apologists scream ‘Doper as well’ I’ve prepared this little package for them.
In May 1994, Indurain tested positive for salbutamol following the Tour de L’Oise in France. Though the ?2-adrenergic agonist, found in nasal inhalers, was on the banned substance list of both the IOC and UCI, both organizations permitted sportsmen with asthma to use it. However in France there was an outright ban on its use.[21] The IOC agreed with the UCI that Indurain would not be punished for using a drug banned outright in France because they accepted the salbutamol was contained in a nasal inhaler he had been using legitimately to aid his respiration. In Spain, the incident was interpreted as another case of the French attempting to hinder Indurain’s domination of the sport.[22]
21 Jan 2013, 15:58 pm
@willievz-238: ” But pretty much” says it all for me then…cheats aren’t greats in my book…no wangle room
you are either one or the other.
21 Jan 2013, 16:00 pm
lance armstrong: most supreme athlete to ever cheat his way to a TDF victory.
21 Jan 2013, 16:04 pm
@willievz-246: Dad pays….Dad arranges/orders and often administers the gunk.
@wnbb-247: You used Wikipedia to back your Indurain apology?
Dig a little deeper. As I say, the sport is tainted full stop. Top to bottom. But I will keep watching, and admiring. Because there is nothing more thrilling than watching the peleton start the climb on the 1st mountain stage (doped to the hilt or not…)
21 Jan 2013, 16:07 pm
Bakkies must still be in that urgent meeting.
21 Jan 2013, 16:09 pm
Indurain -5 titles in a row
Armstrong – 7 tainted titles and now taken away from him.Zero titles then,Pedifool?
21 Jan 2013, 16:11 pm
@NZINCHINA-251: ….or on his daily walk after his mind was taken over by screaming voices again.
21 Jan 2013, 16:11 pm
that’s like me sticking my neck out for a doped up michael jordan & maintaining that His Airness is the greatest even though he had goon running down his bald head…
ridic…
21 Jan 2013, 16:12 pm
@wnbb-253:
He’s going to be shattered after the revelations on here tonight.
21 Jan 2013, 16:16 pm
@NZINCHINA-233:
haha
funny, China
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-234:
that was my point to China and Hurri.
at least here we expose it because its wrong.
21 Jan 2013, 16:16 pm
@Transformation-248: So you wouldn’t count Diego Maradona as a football great? Despite cheating with the Hand of God?
What about batsmen that knicked and don’t walk if the umpire doesn’t give them out?
21 Jan 2013, 16:21 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-256:
Lets not drag this on for hours/weeks/months/seasons/years like you do about cheating, lets nip it in the bud right now – Bakkies does cheating (doping) exist in SA? ( you are under oath)
21 Jan 2013, 16:23 pm
Oh well
I used to admire these riders
No more.
21 Jan 2013, 16:23 pm
@NZINCHINA-258:
What’s your point
You already asked Willie
21 Jan 2013, 16:27 pm
@wnbb-252: 7 Titles in the hearts and minds of humble cycling fans…..
Indurain was an incredible competitor….. Armstrong was the TDF rider of the century.
21 Jan 2013, 16:32 pm
@willievz-257: i hate cheats!
21 Jan 2013, 16:33 pm
@Transformation-262: Hehe, you must hate a lot of Kiwis then
21 Jan 2013, 16:38 pm
Bakkies you must still be in that urgent meeting, I’ll check your answer in the morning – cheers.
21 Jan 2013, 16:39 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-261: Well…
This century is only 12 years and a bit old…
21 Jan 2013, 16:42 pm
@willievz-265: Ooops, realise my cockupnow…. The greatest since 1903.
21 Jan 2013, 16:43 pm
I’m not trying to make a sweeping statement here, or maybe I am, but several saffer mates have told me ‘roids are pretty widespread in SA. Is that true? Could be in NZ but I’ve never been a gym junkie so I wouldn’t know. We tend to have slightly less problems with drugs unless they can be manufactured locally, which could explain our drinking problems.
@Hurricane-137: Goosen was caught and as far as I know, banned for a few months. But he used the classic PdV excuse – “It was the energy drinks”. Similar to but even more effective than the “it was the hormones in the chicken I ate last night” excuse. They banned him anyway and told him he’s responsible for anything going into his body.
21 Jan 2013, 16:45 pm
@gonzo-267: You’re correct. Most of us have admitted it. The denialists need a reaity check. Fitness circles rock with the sh y te.
21 Jan 2013, 16:46 pm
@NZINCHINA-258:
whats your point, China
i havn’t said its never happened?
read the article, 18 schoolboys out of 62 have tested positve.
if its happening it needs to be dealt with, end off.
we are talking about thousands of schoolchildren in total.
21 Jan 2013, 16:49 pm
@willievz-263:
a rare bit of honesty..?..
its a good look.
21 Jan 2013, 16:50 pm
i have to go
later all
21 Jan 2013, 18:07 pm
How many more times will I have to state this, emphatically? :
Where the Extra Terrestrial leads the dregs of S.African ‘Apartheid’ society will still follow, if they have enough years to live and outlive me.
Who highlighted doping in rugby in S.A. consistently(remember THAT farcical eoyt when Chili and Basson took the rap for the squad?)
Yet, as their myths crumble the pathetic apologisers dredge up more outrageous ones, like arsestretchers (ostrich too good) with their heads in the quagmire of faecal matter.
Now they try to say “all”, “most”, almost all “(whatever that means to them as they suck figures from where?) took drugs,
YET, I can refer, off the cuff , to some who have not taken drugs, who turned Armstrong down and paid the price for their honesty or did not take drugs :
1. Brian Smith: I told Lance I’d never take drugs(not the only one to say this)
It was the autumn of 1994 and I had joined Lance Armstrong on a training ride on the banks of Lake Como.
We had enjoyed a successful season as colleagues on the Motorola team. I was certainly feeling I’d done pretty well in my first year there. I’d won the British title and just completed my first grand tour at the Giro d’Italia. I’d also won the first European race of the season for Motorola. I’d made a contribution. Proved myself to be a good, solid pro.
But Lance wasn’t happy. He’d won the world road race title the previous year but was getting beaten. There were guys in the peloton he just couldn’t live with and what you have to understand about Lance is that he is a winner. He has to win and he could not handle losing.
That year Evgeni Berzin won the Giro and Marco Pantani emerged on the scene, winning a couple of stages.
So, as we’re riding side by side, the conversation turns to the subject of performance-enhancing drugs. He wants to know what I think. Did I think everyone was on them? Was the only way to beat them to join them? Would I take them?
My dad was a Scottish international cyclist and before I turned pro he sat me down and made me promise that I would never fall into that world, that I would never take drugs.
I told Lance the story and told him I could never let down my dad. I’d rather fail as a cyclist than do that. We rode on.
Two weeks later, I was called to a meeting with Jim Ochowicz, who played a big part in Lance’s career and at the time was Motorola team manager. Jim told me I would not be getting a new contract for the following season. I was out.
But I have often wondered if saying yes to drugs on that ride would have made all the difference. Would he have kept me on the team? Would I have had a different career? Would I have been more successful, in terms of results as well as financially? I certainly don’t think it helped me, saying no to Lance that day.
In David Walsh’s book, L.A. Confidentiel, he had a testimony from Steven Swart, who is a good friend and was still on the Motorola team in 1995. He claimed in Walsh’s book that the doping started at Motorola in 1995 and he was ostracised by the sport as a result. The power of Lance.
I made a living out of cycling and continue to do so. I’m the general manager of the Endura Racing team and I work as a commentator for Eurosport, ITV and Sky. I also got to ride in the Atlanta Olympics.
2. CYCLING hero Mark Cavendish fears no one will believe pro cyclists are clean again:
Last night he said: “He was a hero to anyone wanting to be cyclist when I was growing up, but when he was asked in the past if he was cheating he was so adamant, so convincing.
“I get irritated when people question if my success is through hard work, but after seeing the interview, I can now understand why people have a problem with believing us today when we say we are clean.
“They could think ‘if Lance lied so well, so could they’.”
Cav, 27, also admits he is not so concerned with the period before he came into the sport himself, but more in the time after lance’s comeback, when he and Lance were both pros.
So far Lance has not admitted to doping since his 2009 comeback, the point when he and Cav started competing in the same tours.
“That’s the issue for me, if he was cheating while I knew him. I phoned Lance on a couple of occasions to ask him for advice, he was a friend.
“It would hurt me more if he was doping then, when I counted him as a mate. But evidence from the UCI’s Biological Passport program, ironically a program he said really works, suggests a 1 in a million chance he DIDN’T dope.
“But in the interview, he claimed the allegations as absolutely false. Where I could have believed him before seeing video clips of him lying convincingly before, I think I’m among the majority who can’t trust the words anymore.”
Isle of Man born Cav says the culture of doping which Armstrong has admitted was rife during the 1990s, has left modern athletes like himself carrying the can.
He said: “What really annoys me is the fact modern pro cyclists are tarred with the same brush as a dope-cheat because of what happened in a bygone era.
3. a. British cycling and Boardman saved me from doping like Armstrong, says Wiggins :
Bradley Wiggins admitted he could easily have been caught up in the Lance Armstrong doping scandal that has rocked cycling.
This year’s Tour de France winner joined British Cycling aged 18 and claimed they saved him from peer pressure that may have led to him taking drugs.
Wiggins, 32, said: ‘It’s not about (Lance Armstrong) as a person, it’s about the culture of the sport and peer pressure.’
I’m very fortunate I was in the system. British Cycling supported me. Chris Boardman in my early 20s probably saved me, he taught me to do things the right way. That could’ve been me.’
Wiggins, who rides for the British Sky team, said he had no sympathy for Armstrong, who has had his seven Tour de France titles taken away after the US Anti-Doping Agency released a report into ‘the most sophisticated, professional and successful doping programme in history’.
‘Not really, no,’ said Wiggins. ‘My main concern is that I’m the winner of the Tour de France having to pick up the pieces for other people.
I saw a report on the BBC saying this now leaves the sport in tatters. It is quite the opposite considering the summer we’ve had as a British cycling nation. Now we’re the ones picking up those pieces. We’re the ones that have changed the sport.
‘Steps have been taken a long time ago, which is why we’re one of the most successful sports for catching people.’
Armstrong, who still denies drug-taking, is likely to keep the Olympic time-trial bronze he won at Sydney in 2000 — despite evidence that at around that time he was the main figure in a bullying culture of drug-taking and drug-running.
IOC rules do not allow a medal to be stripped after more than eight years have elapsed.
b. Bradley Wiggins: Armstrong admission would ‘write off’ Nineties as lost decade :
LONDON (AFP) — British cycling star Bradley Wiggins said Lance Armstrong’s anticipated admission of doping in a two-episode interview with talk-show host Oprah Winfrey would be both a “great” and “sad” day for the sport.
Wiggins, winner of last year’s Tour de France and Olympic time trial, added that the extent of doping in the 1990s meant it had now become cycling’s “lost” decade as a consequence of so many results being corrupted by drugs cheats.
“There’s a lot of angry people about,” Wiggins told Sky News in an interview conducted at his Team Sky training camp in Madeira. “They need that closure in their life because they’ve been battling for so long for this.
“It will be a great day for a lot of people and quite a sad day for the sport in some ways. But I think it has been a sad couple of months. The ’90s are pretty much a write-off now.”
Wiggins’s compatriot Nicole Cooke, meanwhile, used the occasion of her retirement on Monday to slam Armstrong, his former teammate Tyler Hamilton and other drug cheats who “robbed” clean riders such as herself of victories and prize money.
Hamilton denied doping before confessing on the CBS news program “60 Minutes” and again in his award-winning book “The Secret Race.”
“Tyler Hamilton will make more money from his book describing how he cheated than I will make in all my years of honest labor,” said the 29-year-old Cooke, who won road race gold at the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
“When Lance cries on Oprah later this week and she passes him a tissue, spare a thought for all of those genuine people who walked away with no reward — just shattered dreams. Each one of them is worth a thousand Lances,” said Cooke.
“I do despair that the sport will ever clean itself up when rewards of stealing are greater than riding clean. If that remains the case, the temptation for those with no morals will always be too great.”
4. Former Team GB cyclist Richard Moore has criticised Lance Armstrong following his doping admission and has insisted that there is nothing “honourable” about his confession.
The disgraced cyclist confirmed in an interview with Oprah Winfrey that he had taken performance-enhancing drugs throughout his career, which included seven record Tour de France titles.
While some have welcomed Armstrong’s admission, Moore believes that the sport will be unable to move on until everyone that helped the Texan cheat is exposed.
These clean athletes involved in cycling are but a few. Their are up to 40%, at least, of CLEAN cyclist (possibly more since 2011 ) if one accepts that the world cycling body intimated that about 6 of the top TEN finishers of the TDF in the last number of years were positive.
21 Jan 2013, 18:24 pm
And here is the lung cancer or TB putrid, foul-smelling GOB in the faces of the MORONS who ok cheating.
Novak Djokovic: ‘Lance Armstrong should suffer for his lies’ :
Friday, January 18, 2013 at 07:45 UK
World number one tennis player Novak Djokovic has expressed contempt for the actions of cyclist Lance Armstrong.
The American came clean about the use of performance-enhancing drugs during an interview with Oprah Winfrey
Armstrong admitted to using banned substances during his seven wins at the Tour de France between 1999 and 2005, backtracking on years of doping denials.
Djokovic, speaking after his 6-4 6-4 7-5 victory over Radek Stepanek at the Australian Open, believes that the American “cheated” the sport and its fans.
“He cheated the sport, many people around the world,” said Djokovic. “I think he should suffer for his lies all these years.”
21 Jan 2013, 18:44 pm
Here we go ………
21 Jan 2013, 18:47 pm
Dave Brailsford, British Cycling’s performance director who was key to Bradley Wiggins becoming the first Briton to win the Tour de France this year, said was stunned to read the USADA findings. “It is shocking, it’s jaw dropping and it is very unpleasant.”
21 Jan 2013, 18:52 pm
And Novak lives on a banana for five hours.
Right.
21 Jan 2013, 18:53 pm
Summary of Usada’s reasoned decision
The evidence in this case also includes banking and accounting records from a Swiss company controlled by Dr Michele Ferrari reflecting more than $1 million in payments by Mr Armstrong, extensive email communications between Dr Ferrari and his son and Mr Armstrong during a time period in which Mr Armstrong claimed to not have a professional relationship with Dr Ferrari and a vast amount of additional data, including laboratory test results and expert analysis of Mr Armstrong’s blood test results.
The achievements of the USPS/Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team, including those of Lance Armstrong as its leader, were accomplished through a massive team doping scheme, more extensive than any previously revealed in professional sports history.
The evidence is overwhelming that Lance Armstrong did not just use performance-enhancing drugs, he supplied them to his team-mates. He did not merely go alone to Dr Ferrari for doping advice, he expected that others would follow. It was not enough that his team-mates give maximum effort on the bike, he also required that they adhere to the doping program outlined for them or be replaced.
21 Jan 2013, 19:03 pm
Drug kingpin.
Drug cartel leader.
Liar
Drug cheat
Those words just about sum up Armstrong’s professional cycling career.We can now safely say,as per USADA,that Armstrong used performance-enhanced drugs for about 95 percent of his professional career.What is this saying to us now?Can we now accept as fact that Armstrong would have stayed an extremely average cyclist if it was not for his drug-induced binges?Will we ever truly know the extent of Armstrong’s doping?Probably not,as we are dealing with an individual who has perfected the art of lying and cheating.
21 Jan 2013, 19:43 pm
@wnbb-247:
Do you truely believe that Miguel Indurain always rode clean during his 5x tour victories ?
21 Jan 2013, 20:00 pm
If a schoolboy is caught doping, he should be banned from all forms of the sport for LIFE.
21 Jan 2013, 20:40 pm
For those who refuse to believe that anyone else doped and that Lance ‘robbed’ so many decent and clean riders of TDF victories with his ‘evil ways’….
“There is some forgiveness out there: in the peloton’s old guard. The opponents ‘robbed’ of success by Armstrong’s cheating appear, in the main, suspiciously unperturbed, with some, such as Germany’s Andreas Kloden, second to Armstrong in 2004, currently preparing for the 2013 season in apparent – to use a favourite Euro expression – ‘serenity.’”
The term ‘suspiciously unperturbed’ tells you all you need to know…..
If I was a clean rider, I would be petitioning the UCI for those TDF titles as fast as I could whip up an email and protest action. I would be tantruming in the way the Kiwi shot putter Valerie Adams did for her gold medal once the original winner tested positive…..
Why is no-one demanding these TDF titles? They’re a few years old yes, but still valuable on all sorts of levels (personal mostly) to ANY competitive sportsman worth his weight in elite sports.
Where are all these clean riders he robbed, and WHY are they all ‘suspiciously unperturbed’?
Bloodymoralievers.
21 Jan 2013, 20:42 pm
@leBroix-280:
I agree, although that should apply to representative sports. The problem is that there is far too much money at stake in professional sports. I’d love to see the Olympics go back to an amateur event.
21 Jan 2013, 21:03 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-281: And final post for the night….
Dearest ET..do not think for one minute that the ‘Grandpa’ headache powders you sluk before bellyflopping into a Virgin Active pool, are meaningless……
You are just as guilty as Lance whether you use ‘Grandpas’ (in your case) to stay afloat in a pool…..OR, you’re a student who uses Ritalin to stay awake and focused whilst cramming for an exam……(certainly an unfair advantage over fellow students? Or will you tell me that it’s not cheating, as all the students use it, and CAN use it if they wish? Oops?…..)
LIVESTRONG !!!!!!!
21 Jan 2013, 21:16 pm
@gonzo-267:
Yep, Goosen was caught. Thing is that i find it strange that Bakkies is all over the Lance Armstrong,yet he wanted me to apologise for falsely accusing the Bok players that were also caught…..bit weird i must say.
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-269:
“i havn’t said its never happened? ”
NO what you have said is that SA players do not cheat. You have bought this rubbish on yourself Bakkies. All this AB hatred and trying to make your South African players saints has back fired. I expect an apology…. If you want me to say sorry to SA drug cheats, at least you say sorry for all your accusations on NZ rugby.
21 Jan 2013, 22:01 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-283:
> Dearest ET..do not think for one minute that the ‘Grandpa’ headache powders you sluk before bellyflopping into a Virgin Active pool, are meaningless
ET’s launching his own “Poopstrong” b.uttplug
It’s all the rage for keepin the brown sharks at bay and out of the pool
A small percentage of the proceeds will go to his Oom Tas Charity for unknown, forgotten Badminton players from the 80′s Bergies league
ET wanted to spill the b.alls on Oprah, but couldn’t reach an amicable agreement.
Oprah wanted him to donate to the “Gail, special friend” charity, a charity providing assistance and batteries to homeless l.esbians but Extraball wouldn’t budge.
He needs the money for the upcoming “Badminton for the Homeless” tournament in Taiwan.
He already dreams about lifting the Chiang Kai-sheck trophy
22 Jan 2013, 04:26 am
If anyone wanted to gauge the level of honesty and decency and fairness among S.Africans, this thread should give a shocking answer.
This thread goes from the ridiculous to the more ridiculous to the most ridiculous and eventually to the gutter in cavalier and superficial manner whilst peppered with twisted notions, distortions, mangled ‘ideas’, lies and little understanding of what has been read from articles by professional sport’s scientists.
The irony of it all is that I cannot count , amongst the many fools, anyone with a half-course in physiology, exercise physiology and /or pharmacology let alone a full course or qualification in all three. It means the professional ideas out of the Noakes, Lab.(Tucker) are just wasted.
Dare I say that they will probably say with reasonable people they would reason, with humane people they would plead but with tyrants they would not concede and inch. Or maybe not for you are mostly cut from the same clothe as they are. You are ilk.
22 Jan 2013, 05:11 am
Because of the above, the absurd comments and/or claims are based on nothing but quicksand.
Phil Anderson an accomplished Australian cyclist mentored the early Armstrong. He said that Lance did not impress him at all and that he did not deem him to ever perform well in a TDF then as his time trials and mountain cycling was amongst the poorest he had encountered at that stage. This is clearly anecdotal but from a fellow athlete, even competitive, classy cyclist hence the mentoring
Anderson and the Kiwi, Swarts testified in a court case here in the USA years ago against Armstrong.
Now some fools writes above as if they are exquisite experts :
Armstrong was the best Tour de France cyclist of his generation.
Armstrong is a phenomenal athlete
best endurance athletes in the history of sport.
Doping can not turn a chump into a champ.
legalise drugs.
Let me examine these wild shouts. On what are they based, what yardstick , what measurements? How do they stand up to how other fellow competitors say from their experiences relative to our moronic experts.
Take the top three claims. On the day I got back here I was fortunate to see that evening on ESPN2 Armstrong’s performance in his 2nd Xterra world championship(3 events with swimming followed by cycling and running with the latter 2 both off-road)
Lance entered the cycle event out of the top ten and very slowly worked his way to the lead but did not finish first in the event as he crashed into the bush.
He entered the run seemingly in 2nd place but finished the championship in 23rd place which means up to 21 athletes passed him on that run.
How does this performance measure the top three claims of the fools?
How does the lower level Navy Seals event measure up to this world championship as it is presented as a stupendous performance where an “olympion”(sic) any one not the champ or medalist possibly is the cherry on top?
22 Jan 2013, 05:58 am
“Doping can not turn a chump into a champ.”
This is laughable in the extreme as the very opposite is exactly true if you are the willing, bullying “chump” and have the most sophisticated bunch of medical cheats willing to help, and take millions from you in the process.
With doping there can never be a level playing field even if all the different cheating teams co-operate as best they can(which is really never) to give every cheating cyclist the same volume and same concentration of the same drug..There are far too many physiological and pharmacological parameters and factors involved. It is a complex multifactorial scenario.
On the simplest level there is body mass, and body fat % and muscle (largely protein) mass and much, much more to consider from one athlete to another. The pharma. factors are more complex. Is the drug carried in the blood bound to a protein or somewhat and somehow dissolved in the water of blood(the plasma), what is the conc. of that binding molecule in one athlete relative to another? How is the drug administered(a number of ways available) but more importantly what are the first pass effects through the liver from one athlete to the next for the administered drug? This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Consider the differences in the acquired know-how of each cheating team of experts.
In the specific case of Lance did his cancer treatment(Rx) change and compromise his physiology. Cancer Rx has the aim of killing cancer cells but what effects might it have had on his normal, healthy or otherwise, body cells?
How did the cancer Rx affect his organs and cells to handle the drugs for cheating? Did the prior steroids usage contribute to his testicular cancer?
So smartarses it is easy to write your garbage above but where ignorance is bliss ’tis folly to be wise. You are creating your own Frankensteins.
As for the gutter advice of “legalise” steroids or any PEDs, the least said , soonest mended.
Drugs affect many physiological systems and organs deleteriously to the point of irreparable damage and often death., moron
Empty vessels make the most noise but it would be advisable to consider silence, for it is golden
22 Jan 2013, 06:06 am
{{ It’s speculated within science that drugs improve performance by between 5% and 10%, and that’s an advantage too large for any genetic ability or dedicated training to overcome. In cycling, if you were a winner, you were a doper. A sad reality, and one that Armstrong took to mean that he should dope better than anyone else, such was the desire to win, whatever the price, mostly to others.}}
This translates to “doping can … turn a chump into a champ”
22 Jan 2013, 06:13 am
@Robzim-138:
There’s definitely an extra’s role as the lab coffee-boy in the background at USADA…
22 Jan 2013, 06:15 am
Tucker again:
Added to this was the slow drip of testimony against Armstrong – team-mates, staff, journalists, and cycling insiders. They could not ALL be bitter, jealous liars, so soon it became obvious that if you believed in Lance Armstrong, it’s because you wanted to believe. The willful suspension of disbelief among journalists and general followers fuelled the Nike-assembled marketing machine, and an icon was created. But here was more than enough to see the truth a long time ago. Armstrong, and the sport, had a doping problem }}
“it’s because you wanted to believe ” and ” an icon was created” should be ringing in some big ears.
22 Jan 2013, 06:20 am
Hurri I didn’t know Goosen had been caught doping, sounds like its rife in SA.
22 Jan 2013, 06:55 am
@NZINCHINA-292:
China…I have my doubts about this 18 outta 64 testing positive for performance enhancing drugs, surely the results include recreational drugs as well?
22 Jan 2013, 07:09 am
@ET.-291: Once more…..my issue is firmly with those who shift the goal posts to ‘suit’ their alleged moral platform.
You admire Mssr Arendse…..yet he bullied folk in a very Armstrong-esque manner.
You admire Mssr Cheeky Watson (as do I, but then again I still dig Armstrong so I ‘may’ admire another less than pure soul, like Watson, without looking like a hypocrite I guess)…….he who employed more than one Armstrong tendency.
You plea for radical transformation in Saffa sport, based on nothing more than ‘your’ ideologies, without putting into some sort of perspective, that just maybe ‘forced quotas’ is just another form of DOPING……….
You rave about various Aussie cricketers….many of whom have been tainted by match fixing allegations at some stage, and some of who have been bust fair and square. Yet this is ok of course
Soccer…… Italy 2006? Any bells ringing? SA, as recently as 2010? Ding dong ding dong.
Think before you INK old fella. And next time you sluk a Grandpa before a badminton game – remember; YOU are Armstrong.
22 Jan 2013, 07:15 am
@Hurricane-284:
you are clueless, Hurri.
22 Jan 2013, 07:20 am
@Te Rangatira-293:
Yip some probably were
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-295:
Doping is rife in SA schools, it is you who is clueless, the Bokke number 10 tested positive 3 years ago
22 Jan 2013, 07:23 am
@Te Rangatira-293: Morning
In SA the ‘sports supplement’ industry isn’t regulated. There are a few woeful efforts here and there, but one can walk into almost any pharmacy and self medicate with any product amongst the 1000000000000′s on display.
Because there is a huge gap in regulation – some of these seemingly innocent, over the counter products can (and sometimes do) contain any number of banned substances. In many (definitely not all) cases, folk are swallowing things they have not researched, and have zero clue as to what it is they are swallowing/mixing etc. I have no doubt quite a few of the positive ‘tests’ come from this category. The supplement industry in SA is a minefield. (I was using a frikking product for recovery that contained a banned substance….obvlivious I was….. Then again, asthma sufferers, those with pneumonia, and even a kid with a cough are all using banned substances…)
Recreational drugs and their ingredients might account for a few results….
But it is the category of young user who actively source the ‘real stuff’ with the financial help and assistance of dad that concerns most. And contrary to what a fella ike ET would have you believe, it is not only those coming from privileged backgrounds who manage to find the ‘cash’ to do this.
22 Jan 2013, 07:32 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-297:
Hi Pedigree, my Blues sista….yeah looks like a problem that needs lancing for sure. I had a mate who played top Rugby in the nineties who suspected some Sa players being on the juice, but that was mere speculation. I think you recommended off season testing for all Sanzar countries…that is something I’m all for.
22 Jan 2013, 07:35 am
I believe isf all the Super Rugby squads teams were comprehensively tested the tournament would have to be abandoned. Same applys for all pro rugby imo…
22 Jan 2013, 07:42 am
@Te Rangatira-298: Off season testing is the answer, in all sport. I know the regulations are there, but I also know that, for example, Djokovic (in his anti Lance tirade) admitted that he has last been tested 6 months ago…..
Now in any sport 6 months is a helluva long time for a doping program to be initiated, administered and worked out of the system. By anyones standards.
And the way I see it….is the ‘doping’ gives one an advantage in training and preparation (allowing one to get stronger and fitter faster which indirecty benefits the doper on match day), NOT on match day/game day/race day. This is where the axe needs to fall – and hard. In ALL sporting disciplines.
Strict, regular and mandatory off season/pre season/out of season testing – round the world and round the clock.
@grant10-299: I feel you are 100% correct. Every sport on the planet comes to mind.
22 Jan 2013, 07:47 am
@grant10-299:
By the way, Fed reached his 35th consecutive slam 1/4 final. The silly American was trying to be funny when he said 137th…
22 Jan 2013, 08:42 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-295:
So no apology huh?
22 Jan 2013, 10:46 am
South Africans need to get away from the mindset that schools rugby is where its at…there should be emphasis on club and provincial rugby for honours.
It’s almost childish how fanatical schools rugby has continued to be highlighted as vitally important in the South African mentality.
Time to move into the 21st Century chaps. Develop a young man’s basic rugby skills before making him into a wrecking ball before his 19th birthday.
22 Jan 2013, 13:59 pm
” Once more…” the immature and childish and utterly desperate(for truth and any counter, let alone a genuine one) indulge in changing planets with totally emotional outbursts of rubbish.
How do I know? There is no substantiation and cannot be other than rumour, of such by those who abhor the noble principle of world NON-RACISM.
The Armstrong saga has been substantiated ’til the wandering cows have come home.
“Once more” a tick in the column that says you are just confused,ignorant of the facts, stupid and worthless.
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