SA to push for bigger Super Rugby
24 Jan 2013
MARK KEOHANE writes South Africa will this year support an expanded Super Rugby competition to accommodate the Kings and Lions. But Pacific Island teams will again miss out.
Any expansion can only happen in 2016 but take it as a given Super Rugby will comprise more teams, but they won’t feature teams from the Pacific Islands because there is no financial gain to be made.
Sanzar CEO Greg Peters told the media Sanzar’s three partners Australia, New Zealand and South Africa would make the decision to expand or not later in 2013.
Argentina, Canada, Japan and the United States are seen as the primary targets. Japan because of the cash cow it promises to be, Argentina as a commitment to the expanded Rugby Championship that featured the Pumas for the first time and Canada and the United States because they are seen as potential cash cows, especially the United States. The word is to have one team from each of those countries.
It is one of the reasons Canada and the United States will play in the Pacific Nations Cup, which again shows how poorly the Island representation of Tonga, Fiji and Samoa are treated within Sanzar.
South Africa has always been seen as the big brother to Samoa in terms of value attributed to playing against Samoa and giving the country’s rugby side as much playing opportunity as possible.
New Zealand and Australia do nothing to promote the virtues of any of the Island teams because financially they offer nothing in terms of broadcasting deals.
‘We are considering whether or not we will include new territories in Super Rugby and one of the factors we’ll be weighing up is their [Canada and United States] competitiveness,’ Peters told The Australian.
‘Super Rugby in its present form is a pretty successful model … and we are not going to water it down. But we’d be derelict in our duty if we didn’t consider expanding into areas. The United States is a very big market and so is Japan and Asia generally. Ultimately it all comes down to what is in the best interests of the three Sanzar parties.’
Peters said player welfare would be a consideration but an expanded competition may allow for the tournament to be split into two pools of 10 teams each, although Australia will definitely not want to lose the conference system and the double-header local derbies. It is proving massive in Australia and the current format gives Australia everything it has wanted in a rugby union tournament that competes with the AFL (Aussie rules) and rugby league’s NRL.
Television audience figures and match attendance were highest in Australian Super Rugby for derby matches and because Australia has no provincial domestic competition Super Rugby doubles as their domestic competition. Just how South Africa and New Zealand agreed to give up so much for Australia to have so much gain is a question that can never be answered by those who did the surrender. If it could they would not have done so.
Ideally South Africa should be playing in a Super Rugby tournament with the best from England and France. Australia, New Zealand, the Pacific Islands and Japan should have their own Super Rugby tournament. Geographically that makes more sense, but the Celtic nations (Scotland, Ireland and Wales) remain the stumbling block to any South African participation in Europe.
New Zealand knows it can’t do justice to more than five teams, Australia is at its maximum and South Africa’s only need is to ease the political tensions and have all six regions represented. Then it is a matter of which new territories can make the existing Sanzar partners the biggest financial net gain.
Sanzar’s counter argument to the Pacific Islands is that it is the responsibility of the IRB to develop those countries. I don’t buy it, but then Sanzar has never been big on a purchase of morality.
540 Comments
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24 Jan 2013, 06:52 am
The Samoan rugby team is full of NZ Samoans who all learned their rugby in NZ, expect the Moans to take some big scalps this year.
24 Jan 2013, 07:03 am
Keohane talks a load a shitt sometimes…WTF has Sa done for Samoa to all of a sudden be seen as the Big Brother…We the Nz Maori have toured Samoa and played them more than Sa….Keo should STFU..knows farkall
24 Jan 2013, 07:06 am
mixed views really.
wil it dilute the competitiveness of the teams?
already with the Kings and Lions being pushed in this is a concern.
the truth is it’ll turn into a two tier comp, which to some extent it already is.
24 Jan 2013, 07:09 am
Why on earth would anybody in Australia want to change the format? Good luck sanzar. No point in having an American team. Would prefer a pacific conferance with the argies thrown in there.
24 Jan 2013, 07:11 am
Te Rangi, exactly and if they aren’t careful the Samoans might start beating them shortly.
24 Jan 2013, 07:11 am
Outside of RWCs SA has only played Samoa twice and Fiji once. How does make us a Pacific Islander Big Brother?
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-3: A 2-tier system could work and will allow for promotion/relegation.
24 Jan 2013, 07:15 am
@Baylion-6: Oh, and Tonga twice.
24 Jan 2013, 07:16 am
Going by the comments on KEO after a Samoan Bokke game they are viewed as savages not fit to play SA, where does the brotherly part fit in there KEO?
24 Jan 2013, 07:17 am
When last did the ABs play Samoa? Just curious.
24 Jan 2013, 07:19 am
@Te Rangatira-2:
@Baylion-6:
agreed.
its a bit of a stretch really.
Mark uses poetic license too often, i suppose his aim is to sell the fairtytale of rugby at times.
@Baylion-6:
i suppose that could work.
next challenge is the distances involved.
24 Jan 2013, 07:21 am
NZ have a vested interest in keeping the Islanders isolated, because it forces the talent to go to NZ to make a living, where they can be groomed to the NZ structures and possibly the All Blacks. If the Tongans, Fiji and Samoan players suddenly have a competitive league with word-wide exposure and development and everything that comes with it, they would be far less inclined to make the trek over to the big island.
Why would NZ support such a thing?
24 Jan 2013, 07:22 am
@NZINCHINA-5:
Yep, the little brother…big brother syndrome…perhaps China.
24 Jan 2013, 07:27 am
@stormersboy-11:
you can Oz into that equation too.
between their three codes i would bet they probably steal as much or more than the Kiwis do.
24 Jan 2013, 07:27 am
@skunk-9:
2008
24 Jan 2013, 07:28 am
Why not add Russia and Hungary?
Then the Kings might get 2 wins.
SA has never had more than 3 competitive teams in a given year, mostly only 2 and now we want 6 teams.
We overestimate our player depth to think we can field 6 competitive teams, and the same goes for Australia who hardly have more than 3 competitive sides at any given moment.
24 Jan 2013, 07:33 am
@stormersboy-11:
Stornersboy, thats not true. It boils down to money…end of story
24 Jan 2013, 07:37 am
@stormersboy-11:
@Te Rangatira-16:
TR you are right, money and a better life will always be the major factor.
Stormersboy
Does the same principle not also exist here?
How many Eastern Cape youngsters go to other provinces on scholarships and then play for those provinces?
Every year Free State youngsters go to Natal etc. for the better lifestyle and contracts.
24 Jan 2013, 07:38 am
@Te Rangatira-2: rubbish! And what have NZ done to claim big brother status? have the All Blacks ever toured Samoa? Have you askd for them to be included into the 3N like SARU has for Argentina and Samoa. No alll you do is poach, pillage, and steal.
@NZINCHINA-8: Those thugs were not Samoan, they were born and bred kiwi thugs remember. Nearly all of them.
24 Jan 2013, 07:39 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-10:
Keohane is putting something out there to gain leverage for a sixth Sa franchise in Super Rugby. The only country of the Sanzar alliance that can get a competitive team up and going on the field from day one is Nz, only thing we can barely look after five on a financial level.
24 Jan 2013, 07:39 am
@Te Rangatira-2: I quote the great Michael Jones, when coaching Samoa pre 2007 World Cup. Samoa were in SA for a three match warm-up. Jones told us that SA have always been more willing to grow Samoan rugby, through playing opportunities than New Zealand, and that he found that sad given Samoa and NZ were neighbours and that Auckland was the biggest Polynesian City in the world.
Contact Mr Jones yourself if you have a query on this and see what his view is.
24 Jan 2013, 07:40 am
@NZINCHINA-8: have you never called your younger brother a savage when he rips into you and comes close to beating the **** out of you lol It is just not on. What happened to hierarchy?
24 Jan 2013, 07:45 am
@RL-18:
It was Keohane who put the Big brother act outthere….read his words. I said Nz Maori have toured there and played them more than Sa. So what if Saru wanted Samoa in the tri-nations were they going to pay for it?
24 Jan 2013, 07:45 am
@nortierd-15: and we know the Lions would get five points
24 Jan 2013, 07:45 am
@keo-20:
How much of what was said is standard PR?
You know one does not say bad things about ones host.
Michael Jones is revered and a legend, both as a person and player, but we know by now that the sound bites coming from coaches and players are pretty PC.
That’s one of the things I miss from P Divvy, he was more honest and interesting than all the others rolled into one.
24 Jan 2013, 07:46 am
@keo-23:
On a good day perhaps?
24 Jan 2013, 07:47 am
@Te Rangatira-22: Samoa, a brother to SA Rugby. Samoa, a distant cousin to NZ Rugby.
24 Jan 2013, 07:47 am
@stormersboy-11:
Indeed.
It’s like turkeys voting for Christmas.
24 Jan 2013, 07:49 am
@keo-21:
Precisely.
If we get them in the next World Cup I’ll be sending a strongly worded email to the IRB.
24 Jan 2013, 07:51 am
@keo-20:
Who’s this us you talk about…gotta drop Michael Jones name for leverage..I could drop some names to from the islands who dislike Sa Rugby…The truth is you are all talk and have done farkall for Samoa.
24 Jan 2013, 07:53 am
@Te Rangatira-22: yes, just like we pay for and sponsor 5 ANZAC super teams. The reason you (NZRU) do not, did not want them in an extended 3N is because it would have weaked the All Blacks significantly.
24 Jan 2013, 07:54 am
@Te Rangatira-19:
agreed its a stretch though i’m not sure if he’s trying to sell two SA teams.
not too sure about NZ being able to run six competitive super teams, TR.
highlanders, hurricanes and chiefs (save two seasons) have been mediocre to poor i would think, at the least i wouldn’t say they were competitive.
throw in the blues after their 90′s period?
24 Jan 2013, 07:57 am
@keo-26:
What a joke….shouldn’t you be worrying about the underprivileged in your own country?….back on it again…
24 Jan 2013, 07:58 am
@nortierd-15: Very good post.
24 Jan 2013, 07:59 am
@nortierd-17:
i disagree, Nortie
not quite the same moving from one province to another within the same country. the players involved will still be available for their country of origin whereas this is not the case with PI’s.
also, there’s a lot of rumours the NZ’s cap PI’s so they wont be able to play for their countries irrespective of whether they break into the AB elite squad or not. they cap them at lower levels?
24 Jan 2013, 08:02 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-31:
How many games did you Bulls play against Nz teams last year Houston? 20% Record wasn’t it…A sixth Nz Franchise would probably get slaughtered in the Nz Conference but they would be more thancapable of taking out the bumm teams in the other two.
24 Jan 2013, 08:02 am
@Te Rangatira-22:
to be fair, NZ Maori are not tier 1 so dont really count as much.
24 Jan 2013, 08:06 am
@RL-30:
Look mate, you have your opinion…fine and dandy. Unlike you I have lived amongst the Island people all my life.
24 Jan 2013, 08:08 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-34:
Bakkies, how many young SA players play in Europe?
How many play International rugby for their ” adopted” country.
How many aspire to play for those countries?
Elton Jantjies got a sympathy cap last year and let’s see how many more HM will give him during the rest of his coaching tenure.
He went on how many tours with Divvy and obviously carried the tackle bags wrong or something, because he never got on the field.
Yes, maybe he wasn’t the best in his position and I can live with him not being capped on those merits, but he is young and could have had a long International career in most of the European countries had he gone over and played long enough to qualify for citizenship.
24 Jan 2013, 08:11 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-36:
hehe..yes…but the Nz Maori record against top tier teams aint that bad.
24 Jan 2013, 08:12 am
@Te Rangatira-22:
hey ranga… how you tonight (nz-time…)
“So what if Saru wanted Samoa in the tri-nations were they going to pay for it?”
well bud… seems we pay for just about everything else anyway… our strong viewership figures bring in the big bucks in the current format subsidising nz and especially aussie rugby…
so why not subsidise samoa as well…?
we can simply shift some of the funds allocated to nz and aus sideways to samoa…
24 Jan 2013, 08:14 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-34:
If Pacific Island players are born in Nz or hold Nz citizenship/residency then they have every right to play for a Nz rep side
24 Jan 2013, 08:14 am
@nortierd-38: You and I obviously ate the same thing for breakfast this morning!
24 Jan 2013, 08:15 am
I like the idea of going up north. SA play aus and nz in the RC. Besides it will only benefit our players financially and prolong their careers. No more expats
24 Jan 2013, 08:16 am
@nortierd-15:
i agree entirely, but neither do NZ.
at most two or three NZ teams are ever really sure bets to win it (make the playoffs).
24 Jan 2013, 08:17 am
@nortierd-38: enough players to allow us to field 6 very strong super teams. At one stage in last years 6N competition there were 5 of our locks playing rugby for those teams.
24 Jan 2013, 08:20 am
Wikipedia: In the 2007 World Cup there were 14 New Zealand born players in the Samoan squad
Current Samoan squad: 10 NZ born players, 18 who play or have played club rugby in NZ
SA: 1
Sorry, but the figures don’t confirm SA’s Big Brother status
24 Jan 2013, 08:22 am
@Te Rangatira-35:
come on TR, put some effort into your stats.
the **** NZ teams overall success in SA is probably much much lower than that.
further, their overall competiton success is well documented on season by season the rankings.
‘if you ain’t first, you’re last’ buddy boy…
24 Jan 2013, 08:25 am
@BrumbiesBoy-42:
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-44:
Fair point Baks
The norm should be 4 each per SANZAR nations, then they can add Argentina, USA and Japan if they want and the Pacific Islands
16 or 20 teams in 2 pools of 8 or 10.
@RL-45:
Yep, then we could, but currently in SA alone I don’t believe we have enough players to do so.
24 Jan 2013, 08:25 am
@RL-30:
true true
@nortierd-38:
@Te Rangatira-41:
fair enough, i accept.
the times have changed and i’m being a little old fashioned i suppose.
24 Jan 2013, 08:26 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-44: The difference Bakkies, is that even their kakkestofkakteams don’t lose 14 out of 14 games in a super season…..
We have had too many teams that finish bottom of the pile year in, year out since the inception of the tournie.
It’slikewefuckingOWNthewoodenspoon.
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