SA to push for bigger Super Rugby
24 Jan 2013
MARK KEOHANE writes South Africa will this year support an expanded Super Rugby competition to accommodate the Kings and Lions. But Pacific Island teams will again miss out.
Any expansion can only happen in 2016 but take it as a given Super Rugby will comprise more teams, but they won’t feature teams from the Pacific Islands because there is no financial gain to be made.
Sanzar CEO Greg Peters told the media Sanzar’s three partners Australia, New Zealand and South Africa would make the decision to expand or not later in 2013.
Argentina, Canada, Japan and the United States are seen as the primary targets. Japan because of the cash cow it promises to be, Argentina as a commitment to the expanded Rugby Championship that featured the Pumas for the first time and Canada and the United States because they are seen as potential cash cows, especially the United States. The word is to have one team from each of those countries.
It is one of the reasons Canada and the United States will play in the Pacific Nations Cup, which again shows how poorly the Island representation of Tonga, Fiji and Samoa are treated within Sanzar.
South Africa has always been seen as the big brother to Samoa in terms of value attributed to playing against Samoa and giving the country’s rugby side as much playing opportunity as possible.
New Zealand and Australia do nothing to promote the virtues of any of the Island teams because financially they offer nothing in terms of broadcasting deals.
‘We are considering whether or not we will include new territories in Super Rugby and one of the factors we’ll be weighing up is their [Canada and United States] competitiveness,’ Peters told The Australian.
‘Super Rugby in its present form is a pretty successful model … and we are not going to water it down. But we’d be derelict in our duty if we didn’t consider expanding into areas. The United States is a very big market and so is Japan and Asia generally. Ultimately it all comes down to what is in the best interests of the three Sanzar parties.’
Peters said player welfare would be a consideration but an expanded competition may allow for the tournament to be split into two pools of 10 teams each, although Australia will definitely not want to lose the conference system and the double-header local derbies. It is proving massive in Australia and the current format gives Australia everything it has wanted in a rugby union tournament that competes with the AFL (Aussie rules) and rugby league’s NRL.
Television audience figures and match attendance were highest in Australian Super Rugby for derby matches and because Australia has no provincial domestic competition Super Rugby doubles as their domestic competition. Just how South Africa and New Zealand agreed to give up so much for Australia to have so much gain is a question that can never be answered by those who did the surrender. If it could they would not have done so.
Ideally South Africa should be playing in a Super Rugby tournament with the best from England and France. Australia, New Zealand, the Pacific Islands and Japan should have their own Super Rugby tournament. Geographically that makes more sense, but the Celtic nations (Scotland, Ireland and Wales) remain the stumbling block to any South African participation in Europe.
New Zealand knows it can’t do justice to more than five teams, Australia is at its maximum and South Africa’s only need is to ease the political tensions and have all six regions represented. Then it is a matter of which new territories can make the existing Sanzar partners the biggest financial net gain.
Sanzar’s counter argument to the Pacific Islands is that it is the responsibility of the IRB to develop those countries. I don’t buy it, but then Sanzar has never been big on a purchase of morality.
540 Comments
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24 Jan 2013, 17:00 pm
@NZINCHINA-350:
The S14 was the biggest it could get without sacrificing quality and team strength plus each team played the other at least once a year
They played 13 games a year, most of them high quality.
Now they play 16 games a year and a lot of them are just plain boring
24 Jan 2013, 17:02 pm
And for the all the “when did the NZ last play against the islands”, here’s a recent list
Jr ABs Tonga 2006
Jr ABs Fiji 2006
Jr ABs Samoa 2006
Jr ABs Tonga 2007
Jr ABs Fiji 2007
Jr ABs Samoa 2007
NZ Samoa 2008
NZ Maori Tonga 2008
NZ Maori Fiji 2008
NZ Maori Samoa 2008
Jr ABs Tonga 2009
Jr ABs Fiji 2009
Jr ABs Samoa 2009
NZ Tonga 2011
NZ Fiji 2011
24 Jan 2013, 17:10 pm
@victoriabok-351:
Yip too many games just aren’t worth watching, 4 from each country would be ideal, Eden park was full to the brim in the early days now they struggle to half full the stadium, to your guys credit excluding Bloemfontein you still get very decent crowds.
24 Jan 2013, 17:11 pm
@gonzo-352: junior all blacks huh?
who is in that team, jason eaton?
24 Jan 2013, 17:16 pm
too much rugby
24 Jan 2013, 17:17 pm
@NZINCHINA-353:
> 4 from each country would be ideal, Eden park was full to the brim in the early days
You’re just longing for the days when Auckland ruled the roost
The S14 was more fair than the S12
The Aussie and Kiwi teams had to play two or three games on the road as well, it evened the playing field somewhat
24 Jan 2013, 17:19 pm
@Transformation-354: all the maori boys who were poached from Stewart Island (its in the pacific)
24 Jan 2013, 17:20 pm
@NZINCHINA-353:
If they bring Canada and the US in the Championship, the quality will be diluted, much like the World Cup where you don’t get to play all or most of the top 8 teams
Argentina is a good fit, they’ve always been good they only lacked gametime, money and exposure
24 Jan 2013, 17:22 pm
@victoriabok-358: Canada and US are playing in the Pacific Nations cup this year..
24 Jan 2013, 17:29 pm
@victoriabok-358:
Jis VB
You get my mail?
@the curse-359:
Pops, you and TR and even VB must load a profile pic on Superbru.
24 Jan 2013, 17:30 pm
@the curse-359:
They used to play the Churchill cup against the Saxons, the Poms A-side.
They should rather have expanded it to include one A-side each of the three Tri Nations teams
24 Jan 2013, 17:30 pm
@victoriabok-356: p
Sure we can agree less is more though, the Argies brought plenty to table last year during the RC so perhaps they are the ideal fit, it won’t fly in the US the threat of litigation because they don’t wear helmets will kill it…
24 Jan 2013, 17:40 pm
@nortierd-360:
Ja, dis moer snaaks
24 Jan 2013, 17:41 pm
@nortierd-360:
> load a profile pic on Superbru
Wil jy nou die kinders bangmaak?
24 Jan 2013, 17:42 pm
@Transformation-354: As far as I know, they’ve disbanded the Jrs for now and brought back the Maori ABs, or whatever they are called these days. But the Jrs were whoever wasn’t in the ABs – even Rokocoko played a game or two. And Jason Eaton no doubt
Either way, they won every game. I’m not sure how much benefit Samoa gets from being beaten 101-14 vs the ABs. I think they get more out of playing in a competitive cup vs other Pacific teams, against Wales or Scotland or a second-tier NZ team. They have trouble because half their best team plays in Europe but even NZ super teams can’t afford to keep them, let alone if there was an Apia team.
24 Jan 2013, 17:43 pm
@NZINCHINA-362:
No they play a lot of rugby as well, here in Canada too
A lot of huys used to play in in school and college, they think the lack of helmets and padding make them tougher
24 Jan 2013, 17:48 pm
@NZINCHINA-353: Ah yes, those were the days, when Blues fans had something to cheer about. Probably we haven’t had a decent crowd since Spencer left. Here’s a classic moment I like to watch before every Blues/Crusaders game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8btfw32h-w
24 Jan 2013, 17:48 pm
@victoriabok-366:
Will be interesting to see how it all unfolds but it looks like they are going down the expansion path despite any misgivings we the fans might have, it’s late here in the PRC so I’m off to bed – cheers.
24 Jan 2013, 17:49 pm
@gonzo-367:
No you tube allowed in China! – cheers
24 Jan 2013, 17:51 pm
@NZINCHINA-369: Ah, i always forget! Sorry mate
24 Jan 2013, 18:05 pm
@gonzo-367:
yes gonzo, blues fans now live vicariously through teams like the chiefs…counting new zealand super titles instead of their own team
24 Jan 2013, 18:06 pm
@gonzo-367:
One of the best games I’ve ever seen was in 1996 or 1997 when the all conquering Auckland played the Hurricanes with Bull and Cullen
The Blues were the favourites but Wellington ran at them the whole afternoon, so much in fact that Auckland started kicking penalties instead of going for their usual lineout near the tryline
24 Jan 2013, 18:14 pm
@gonzo-367:
Have a look at a much younger and thinner Umaga and the sublime Cullen, especially at the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFC-IpaTs9Q
24 Jan 2013, 18:25 pm
@victoriabok-373: Sheeez, special stuff this.
24 Jan 2013, 18:27 pm
@TooMuchRugby-339: amen to that
24 Jan 2013, 18:27 pm
And now for some comic relief.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Spies-I-want-my-Bok-jersey-20130124
24 Jan 2013, 18:42 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-376: What is comic about it ? Have you forgotten who the Springbok coach is ?
24 Jan 2013, 18:44 pm
The tournament has been ruined by greed.
24 Jan 2013, 18:46 pm
Who is the Springbok coach?
I forgot.
24 Jan 2013, 18:48 pm
These guys are so delusional, they dont even realise how stupid their comments are in the Kings will be competitive article on News24, the Kings defense coach refers to worrying about the Crusaders.
Don’t worry about the Crusaders buddy. I dont think that is where your biggest hiding will come from to be honest. I think the Kings will get their biggest hiding of the season right on South African soil, either in Pretoria, Cape Town or Durban.
This lack of knowledge of Super rugby is going to eat them – especially in the latter stages when injuries and fatigue start to play a role. There will be at least one 100 pointer scored against the Kings. Probably a bit later on in the tournament. That is my prediction.
24 Jan 2013, 18:49 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-374:
It’s dangerous if you have good interplay by an exciting and upredictable back three
The Boks had it when we had Juba, Hendricks and Small at the back
Having a sizeable part of the team play Hong Kong Sevens helped a lot too
24 Jan 2013, 18:49 pm
@Dawn-379: Here is a clue – it is not Captain Morgan, Jim Beam, Johnny Walker or Jack Daniels.
That help ?
24 Jan 2013, 18:50 pm
We’ve had similar discussions on this topic before – just recently when it was expanded to the S15.
If they are going to continue to expand this tournament they will be forced to drop the word “super.” Because, with a Super 20 or Super 30 – pick a number – this competition will be anything but Super. And the fans will stay away as if they aren’t already. Sanzar doesn’t know it but this competition has lost the lustre of the S12 and more so the S14 before.
Just call it “The Sanzar Allcomers Challenge”
With Namibia and Zimbabwe thrown in for good measure.
24 Jan 2013, 18:54 pm
@I am a stormer-383: It is ridiculous. I agree. But everyone wants a piece now. It was special in the beginning, now its just a gold rush. A bunch of smelly miners in overcrowded spaces and rich men standing apart smiling at the fruits of their labor.
24 Jan 2013, 18:56 pm
@Dusky-380:
The SA derbies will give us some cricket scores
> There will be at least one 100 pointer scored against the Kings. Probably a bit later on in the tournament.
No, much sooner when they play Aussie and Kiwi sides on a tough tour
> That is my prediction.
Only one team posting a 100 pointer?
Maybe we should wager who would be the first to put up 100?
I think it might be the Stormers as they’ll be settled by then, they play the Sharks and Bulls too early in the season
What about the PPK pool?
24 Jan 2013, 18:57 pm
@Dusky-382:
Not Crusty either
24 Jan 2013, 18:59 pm
@victoriabok-381: I remember those early Hong Kong 7′s tournies. Of course South Africa treated those tournies as a joke at first. I recall Skinstad, Joost etc all having a run out there.
But the Kiwis – you gotta hand it to them. They just ‘get’ it…. running riot from the back that is.
24 Jan 2013, 19:00 pm
@Dusky-384: Soon the squads will be 60 players strong. Going to be needed to survive the tournament.
I don’t think it’s good for the game, or for the players involved.
24 Jan 2013, 19:03 pm
@victoriabok-385: Yes, lets do a separate prediction table for the Kings. Should be fun.
The Kings will get a moderate start against the Force. A battle of the minnows, but I reckon Force will take this by about 15 to 20 points.
Who was so evil as to give them the early bye ? Anyway, they will earn 4 points in their second week so expect Transie and the rest of the low men to come on here and beat their chests about the Kings getting on the log. What they wont realize is this will compound the Kings woes later and no matter how many times Cheeky asks for a special concession to have an extra week off – he wont get it.
Their next game is against the Sharks in PE. The Sharks tend to play to conditions and opponents – so this might not be a big score. Plus, expect Plum to play his B or C side. It will be hard though – a violent introduction to Super rugby. After this weekend it will dawn on the Kings what the difference between Vodacom Cup and Super 15 is.
And then 6 days after that their aching bodies will have to rise again to play the defending champions, the Chiefs. If they are going to concede 100 points early on – this is the game. So – that is my early prediction. Chiefs to score 13 or so tries in this game against the Kings. Will be something spectacular to watch. I wouldn’t miss it for the world.
24 Jan 2013, 19:04 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-388: Yep – that is another thing. The toll this takes on the players and you’re right – we will have to have big enough squads to have 3 specialist players in each position at a minimum.
24 Jan 2013, 19:09 pm
@victoriabok-385: O jirre tog…..
Sharks (PE), Chiefs (PE), Crusaders (Away), Hurricanes (Away), Brumbies (Away), Rebels (Away), Bulls (PE)…………all in consecutive weeks.
Lets do a separate wager. How many Kings players will be injured by the time the final whistle blows in their first game against the Bulls ? And they will still have half the tournament left.
24 Jan 2013, 19:09 pm
@Dusky-384: @The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-388:
This quote from the article is the one which did the most damage. By gifting Australia a domestic rugby competition through the conference system. And to think that the Kings were up against the Rebels as the competition was expanded to 15 teams.
“Just how South Africa and New Zealand agreed to give up so much for Australia to have so much gain is a question that can never be answered by those who did the surrender. If it could they would not have done so.”
24 Jan 2013, 19:16 pm
@Dusky-389:
> Chiefs to score 13 or so tries in this game against the Kings. Will be something spectacular to watch. I wouldn’t miss it for the world.
Me too, then they hit the road to play the Crusaders(eina), Hurricanes(ouch) and Jake’s invigorated Brumbies(don’t be surprised if Jake declares at 100 not out at half time)
By the time they play the Rebels they won’t have it left in them to beat the only team they were likely too
Then they return and play the Bulls back home
24 Jan 2013, 19:20 pm
@Dusky-390:
The Blue Bulls won the CC from 2002 onwards yet they only started winning and getting to play away semi’s in 2005
Only when they had experienced players on the bench as good as the ones on the field did they win it
To put it into perspective, the Kings couldn’t even beat the worst CC team of 2012, and they expect to win in the S15?
24 Jan 2013, 19:23 pm
@Dusky-391:
> How many Kings players will be injured by the time the final whistle blows in their first game against the Bulls
I’ll give you 1:1 odds Pukie won’t survive the first half?
Now with $1 = R9.00 you’d still win
24 Jan 2013, 19:24 pm
@I am a stormer-392: O’ Neil (thankfuckheisgone) is a sneaky schmuck. Betya he got ‘dirt’ on a few of the delegates. Voila.
24 Jan 2013, 19:24 pm
@I am a stormer-392:
> And to think that the Kings were up against the Rebels
Both s.hyte but the Rebels will improve
24 Jan 2013, 19:27 pm
@Dusky-390:
You’ll see more and more promising players in their prime leaving to play up North
Test players will become much younger as Super rugby will wear them out and injure them before the test season
24 Jan 2013, 19:34 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-396:
And to think not one saffa or kiwi had the balls to stand up to him. So the Lions will be re-admitted and the Kings will stay as the comp is increased to 16 – or even 18 from 2016.
SARU then stumbled onto the Kings issue and no-one had the balls to stand up to Cheeky while he rode rough shod over them.
@victoriabok-397:
The Rebels will. But it’s now funny to remember that the Kings out in a bid to get into the Aussie conference. ***** bells, what were they thinking? And then they stuff up the SA conference.
24 Jan 2013, 19:38 pm
@I am a stormer-399:
They wanted to play out of Oz?
They’re not stuffing up our conference, they can ensure 10 points each for the other teams
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