Nothing blue about JK’s way
11 Feb 2013
After a fortnight of Super Rugby warm-up matches some patterns have emerged that offer the promise of change.
John Kirwan was one of the greatest All Blacks and one of my favourite players. Kirwan on the one wing and Carel du Plessis on the other meant I’d always pick David Campese at fullback in what I viewed as the most lethal back three the game has produced. I still haven’t changed that view more than 20 years after first being convinced the three, individually, and as a unit, had it all.
I’ve followed Kirwan’s coaching career closely and I’ve always been impressed with his desire to learn new things, to embrace different languages and cultures and to immerse himself totally, at times to his detriment as his battles against depression have been as much a discussion on his coaching career, as has his rugby ability.
Kirwan has always been a believer in the game being about the ball and about creating attacking platforms. His teams, by design rather than because of any coaching limitations, have all thrilled with ball in hand but have never had the pedigree of player to back up style of play with results.
Italy was always the team closest to Kirwan after the All Blacks because he played so much of his career in Italy, married an Italian, spent much of his life between Italy and New Zealand and he embraced the Italian culture, language and lifestyle with the same enthusiasm he never denies what makes him an Aucklander.
After spells with Italy as assistant coach and head coach, Kirwan took on the challenge of Japan and they played some sensational rugby leading into the 2011 World Cup and especially at the 2011 World Cup in New Zealand where the Japanese side threatened to beat France in a Pool game only to be undone in the final 10 minutes.
Kirwan’s teams scored tries and played the game at a tempo that made for a spectacle. His only downfall has always been the quality of player available in selection.
He has taken on the responsibility to restore credibility to the Blues franchise and reignite Super Rugby in the region that initially dominated the competition. It is a fantastic appointment and having All Blacks World Cup winning coach Graham Henry as a support structure adds gravitas to the idealism associated with Kirwan and his youthful Blues squad.
I am not expecting the fairytale of a play-off position with the Blues but I am expecting to want to watch the side play this season. The Blues, in the two pre-season matches against the Reds and Tahs, blooded 20 previously unknowns in Super Rugby and the youngsters produced the passion and innovation for which they were selected. They lacked defensive intensity, discipline of more mature teams and could be criticised for lacking in key areas as much as blossoming in others.
But what they achieved without question was to get people talking about the Blues again. It was the first victory for Kirwan and Henry.
Jake White, with the Brumbies, adopted a similar approach. He told the youngsters he picked that talk was irrelevant as was asking the public for support. He said support was earned through performance and their Super Rugby season in 2012 would be measured by how they could increase the home crowd attendance as much as it would be by league results.
He did do his maths though and if people were starting to watch again it usually meant something good was happening on the pitch.
There is enthusiasm of a Blues campaign not suffocated with pre-season doom and there is equal energy coming from within Sydney when it comes to the Tahs. Even Campo believes there is reason to be enthusiastic and he has expressed the view of the squad being semi-final potential and with a bit of luck winning the competition in 2012.
The Blues and the Tahs have two attack-minded coaches and this should add a dimension to the tournament. White’s progress with the Brumbies is a campaign within a campaign, as is Dave Rennie’s challenge in sustaining, possibly even improving, what was achieved with the Chiefs in 2012.
For the Highlanders and Reds the expectations are bigger. Jamie Joseph will feel the pressure of turning promise into something with a greater punch and Ewen McKenzie, the probable successor to Robbie Deans as national coach in the next six months, will be determined to have a year more consistent with the title-winning 2011 than the injury-plagued whippings of 2012.
The Canes offer the most promise in New Zealand’s conference with the only question mark still around the menace of the tight five and the depth of those asked to stoke the fires that can make this franchise red hot.
Of the South African franchises the pre-season has asked no new questions and the biggest winner in the pre-season would be the Lions who are now building the platform from which to relaunch their Super Rugby history in 2014.
It is fantastic to see the approach of the Lions and their support base has supported a process that first gives birth to a cub and then hopes for the emergence of a roaring lion.
The Stormers look the most settled in player selection and continuity of picks but they also look the most conservative and it will need a bit more adventure, of the variety produced by Western Province in last year’s Currie Cup, to take them all the way in the competition.
I have picked the Sharks as my team to win the South African conference and win the tournament. I have also picked the Kings to evolve with each weekend because of the quality of the back room staff, especially the Director of Rugby Alan Solomons.
It remains disturbing but not unexpectedly so, that there remains such hatred for a squad of players who never selected themselves, never were a part of the politics that gained the Kings entry into the tournament and never asked for anything but the opportunity to play rugby.
These players are owed support for being South African players, which is not to say they will get it from within South Africa. I am guessing they’ll probably be more embraced overseas if they show a willingness to play the game with flair because the only expectation should be in how they play and improve and not in how many wins they get in year one.
Those who knock them will conveniently forget the Lions won 15 out of 90 matches and went two seasons without a win. Those who knock them will also never accept that the Kings was never meant to be a Super Rugby story at the expense of the Lions.
The Kings are as much the victims as the short-term victors of SARU’s administration bungling in mixing agendas of race, politics, World Cup hosting campaigns, transformation and Super Rugby participation.
The Lions, the victims in 2013, will be long-term victors because in a pressure-free environment of friendly encounters they are building a player base they never had in Super Rugby.
By Mark Keohane
157 Comments
11 Feb 2013, 11:27 am
great article mark…
seriously… one of your best ever…
echoes many of my own thoughts and feelings about jk… (and carel and campo…)
blues are definitely going to play exciting rugby… with jk at the helm that is a given…
only difference is I expect them to make the play-offs… purely because many will take them for granted… but then again as a fan i can be purely idealistic…
but really cool article.. and not just the jk blues…
11 Feb 2013, 11:29 am
RT @keocoza: Nothing blue about JK’s way: After a fortnight of Super Rugby warm-up matches some patterns have emerged that… http://t.c …
11 Feb 2013, 11:38 am
yes, a good article
11 Feb 2013, 11:55 am
Quality article ,MK. Great take on Kirwin’s ability as coach. He is absolutely pure class. The Blues will show great improvement under his leadership .
11 Feb 2013, 11:58 am
Campese, out of position, over Cullen?
Big call.
I’d go for a Cullen, Wilson (ok, maybe Kirwan), Lomu back 3.
11 Feb 2013, 12:01 pm
@willievz-5:
to be fair….it is a tough call to leave out habs as well, the SA player with the greatest strike rate. His career is reaching nearly 10 years long now.
11 Feb 2013, 12:07 pm
jk sounds like pdv…expansive with no D hence the foil in the form of GH & Mick Byrne.
” I have picked the Sharks as my team to win
the South African conference and win the
tournament.”
you hav been picking the Guppys since 2009 mark & they have returned with zilch.
11 Feb 2013, 12:08 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-6: It is.
But, unfortunately, he plays on the same wing as Lomu.
And Lomu is the first name I’d pen down in an All-Time XV.
11 Feb 2013, 12:09 pm
personally i’d go for jk, campo and cullen…
11 Feb 2013, 12:11 pm
@ufo-9:
I’m with you on Cullen.
11 Feb 2013, 12:12 pm
@cane-10:
but not jk and campo…?
who would your wings be…?
11 Feb 2013, 12:14 pm
Anyway,
1.Greyling
2.Chilli
3.Kruger
4.Flip
5.Kruger
6.Potgieter.D
7.Potgieter.J
8.spies
9.Hougie
10.morne
11.Basson
12.Olivier
13.Mapoe
14.JJ
15.Kirchener
16. Weepener
17. Frik Kirsten
18. Willemse
19. A.Botha
20.Stegmann
21. Venter
22.Pollard
I’m quite comfortable the bulls will do okay. Tough getting a balanced 16-22 though with a 5/2 split. 4/3 split as it looks like it will be because you need to get vermaak onto the bench but means either a.botha or stegmann loses out.
11 Feb 2013, 12:16 pm
Nice work Keo and thanks for those kind words directed to the Lions. Keep it up because you some stiff competition from those fiction writers – JC, Vrede and Gareth D.
Competition is always welcome.
11 Feb 2013, 12:16 pm
@willievz-8:
not so sure ….the longetivity of ones career must count for something?
11 Feb 2013, 12:20 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-14: Perhaps.
But I am using Keo’s criteria as “the most lethal” back 3.
Lomu at his best beats Habana at his best.
11 Feb 2013, 12:22 pm
@cane-10: when are you guys coming to fetch Mitch? Do you want me to call home affairs and have him deported.
11 Feb 2013, 12:23 pm
@cane-10:
Sure I’m with you on Campo as a wing too.
JK……………………………….well there have been a lot of really really good wingers over the years.
Hard to say. But one of my all favourites was a Welshmen, and a 1971 Lion in NZ, John Bevan. Tough as leather and as slippery as a Saffa with an IBA contract.
11 Feb 2013, 12:24 pm
@willievz-8: Ditto. I think Dagg will become one of those players we’ll speak about in years to come. Thus far, Cullen is top of the pile. Chris Latham a short way behind.
11 Feb 2013, 12:24 pm
@RL-16:
Keep him RL. Please.
11 Feb 2013, 12:25 pm
@cane-17:
hehehe…
11 Feb 2013, 12:28 pm
I am so impressed with L Cronje at 10 for Lions…..class…plays like a Frenchman on juice…..that oke can go all the way..
11 Feb 2013, 12:30 pm
Campo, no way in hell. Habana is better for a start. Campo was good but there have been many better. Not convinced about Kirwan and Carel being the best either. Both class acts but cant say they were the best.
11 Feb 2013, 12:30 pm
@cane-17:
11 Feb 2013, 12:31 pm
@grant10-21:
ja, we all saw how Freddie the frog playing on juice worked out on the weekend.
You can keep him, but thanks anyway.
11 Feb 2013, 12:33 pm
@v/Zyl…….Drop those two props they were sorely exposed last year. Mellett and Kirsten are better.
Mapoe is not physical enough for 13, leave JJ at 13 and play Mapoe on the wing.
No way in hell should Olivier play ahead of Serfontein and Frans Venter, its time to move on.
The Bulls could also do with moving on from Morne
Arno Botha is better than J.Potgieter
11 Feb 2013, 12:33 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-24: wish I could keep him…alas he is a Lion…
11 Feb 2013, 12:36 pm
Best 15′s ever. In my living memory.
In no particular order: (except cullen, who is #1).
- Cullen.
- Serge Blanco. (fr)
- Andy Irvine. (Scotland)
- Ian MacCullum. (SA circa 1970).
- JPR Williams. (Wales).
- Joubert. (SA).
- Latham (Aus).
- Matt Bourke (Aus).
- Hastings (Scot).
- John Gallagher, (NZ).
11 Feb 2013, 12:36 pm
@RL-16: is he still alive? I thought he got stabbed?
11 Feb 2013, 12:37 pm
Id rather have Caucau in his prime on any wing rather than Campo anyday
11 Feb 2013, 12:39 pm
@grant10-21: Not so sure G10. Will be one of those players who are destined to be bridesmaids and never brides. I think injuries have robbed him building the necessary momentum and building a reputation. If he does well for the Lions this year, he might squeeze into a S15 squad next year if the Lions don’t make it themself. Currently Lambie, Goosen & Jantjies are vying for the Bok 10. Next year, new batch of 10′s will roll into S15 rugby.
11 Feb 2013, 12:40 pm
@g10: l.cronje has a loooooong way before i get excited the way i used to whe he was playing for Queens & when he ripped the Baby Bok jersey from Brummer & Sias
11 Feb 2013, 12:42 pm
“The Lions, the victims in 2013, will be long-term victors because in a pressure-free environment of friendly encounters they are building a player base they never had in Super Rugby.”
This “it’s good for the Lions” bs p!1sses me off.
You cannot seriously think that the Lions are better off without the players they lost last year. That was the group to build on. The Lions have been put back three years, back to 2010, when they had lost 15+ players the previous year
11 Feb 2013, 12:45 pm
that Camarque horse, Serge Blanco, & JPR Williams also deserve consideration
11 Feb 2013, 12:47 pm
@cane-19: specially for you cane!
http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2013/02/11/the-best-worst-sports-video-youll-watch-this-year-blue-bulls-sing-stand-by-me-video/
11 Feb 2013, 12:48 pm
@Angostura-33:
Camargue?
11 Feb 2013, 12:50 pm
@cane-27: your forgetting Calla Scholtz!
11 Feb 2013, 12:52 pm
@pompies2-30: @Transformation-31: My bolter and player to keep an eye on in 2013…..
11 Feb 2013, 12:53 pm
i had to laugh the other day, oh the irony!
• 27.the curse:
28 Jan 2013, 10:56 am
@RL-24: 1 Rand equals almost 8 NZ dollars
try and do the maths RL
if your SA education allows working with such big, meaningless numbers
11 Feb 2013, 12:54 pm
@BuckTrendy-34:
Such gees.
I’m crying right now.
11 Feb 2013, 12:56 pm
@BuckTrendy-36:
He made the Top 20. but not the top10.
11 Feb 2013, 12:57 pm
@BuckTrendy-34:
About 30 seconds was all I could take.
Nice to see them back in Blue though.
11 Feb 2013, 12:59 pm
I never understood why some rate Andre Joubert amongst the best of the game.
Was he really that good?
11 Feb 2013, 12:59 pm
@gunther-39: tears of joy? bet you had the foot tappeting under the table!!
11 Feb 2013, 12:59 pm
@BuckTrendy-38: it was comic irony – are you a guppy by any chance?
11 Feb 2013, 13:02 pm
@willievz-42: not only was he a solid defender, good under the high ball, he injected pace into the back line, read the game well and knew how to draw the defender, something we seem to have lost the ability to do…
11 Feb 2013, 13:03 pm
@BuckTrendy-45: But he had that annoying grondskoppie that only gained 5 meters but gave away possession…
11 Feb 2013, 13:05 pm
@gunther-35: The way Blanco played & ran conjures (for me) the spirit & imagery as contained in Horses on the Camarque:
http://allpoetry.com/poem/8560669-Horses_on_the_Camargue-by-Roy__Campbell
11 Feb 2013, 13:05 pm
@RL-44: sis man! weepee man!
11 Feb 2013, 13:06 pm
@BuckTrendy-38: I laughed too
the assumption that a Saffa player was the highest paid in the world still has me cracking up..
we all know every saffa player would spend half his wages on his daily intake of roids..
11 Feb 2013, 13:07 pm
@BuckTrendy-45:
He was the Rolls Royce of fullbacks.
Willie is being a devils avocado.
11 Feb 2013, 13:08 pm
@willievz-46: true…but in full flight he was something to behold
11 Feb 2013, 13:09 pm
The march of the mighty Blues is underway…..
Yeefuckinghah.
Surprises in store for friend and foe alike I reckon.
The Blues makeover has begun.
11 Feb 2013, 13:10 pm
@BuckTrendy-34: I’m amazed they could keep a straight face.
11 Feb 2013, 13:11 pm
@gunther-50: Not at all.
Never rated him that highly.
But that’s just me.
11 Feb 2013, 13:11 pm
@Angostura-47:
Indeed all on 40 Gauloise a day.
You mean the Camargue?
Great fleur du sel.
And white horses.
11 Feb 2013, 13:12 pm
@willievz-42: yes.
11 Feb 2013, 13:14 pm
yeah buck…
always will have a soft spot for calla…!
very underrated fullback…
11 Feb 2013, 13:16 pm
@willievz-54:
Korrec Willie.
11 Feb 2013, 13:17 pm
@willievz-46: He was a percentage players. Above average, but not great on the world stage.
11 Feb 2013, 13:18 pm
@ufo-57: for sure! you enjoy the rugby at the CTS on Sat?
11 Feb 2013, 13:19 pm
@willievz-42: yes. @BuckTrendy-45: Best reader of the game from15 I have ever seen. He also had superb hands – the ball seemed to stick to him.
11 Feb 2013, 13:19 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-52:
you really do promise a lot…
11 Feb 2013, 13:21 pm
@gunther-55: Ag, the spelling? yes, my bad … but you know what I meant
11 Feb 2013, 13:22 pm
@BuckTrendy-60:
yeah thanks… really enjoyed the rugby bud…
you…?
11 Feb 2013, 13:27 pm
@Angostura-33:
carmagain..?..
@BuckTrendy-38:
oh no
tears
tears
Poppa you beaut
11 Feb 2013, 13:50 pm
@RL-13: they are all quality lads at various degrees of their development as quality writers. We are all on the same page. I am back to blogging in my own capacity again and they are the go to guys for all things newsworthy as well as their individual opinions. Think of it as having two mediums servicing your needs.
11 Feb 2013, 14:01 pm
@keo-66:
And let’s face it .
His needs are special.
11 Feb 2013, 14:05 pm
@keo-66: it is nice to have the old Keo writing again – welcome back. Just a pity about losing tanky. Maybe get pissant onboard to post some of his stuff here.
11 Feb 2013, 14:08 pm
@keo-66:
You need a proofreader
I’m your person
11 Feb 2013, 14:09 pm
Will work for cigs
11 Feb 2013, 14:10 pm
Great article Keo.
(able to finish reading it with half a bottle of brandy and coke to go)
All these moaners and swearers and anti this and that are all loyal supporters. Just keep the snippets coming.
11 Feb 2013, 14:11 pm
@keo-66:
I too have a psychic medium on speedial
11 Feb 2013, 14:13 pm
Anyone notice the Kings are mentioned?
Should make for 300 posts or thereabout
11 Feb 2013, 14:16 pm
@keo: please you can employ whoever u want, just not f.cuking Mormons…
no hiyas bro ^5
11 Feb 2013, 14:31 pm
And gold chains and Brut
11 Feb 2013, 14:31 pm
@pompies2-59: Give me Gavin Johnson over Andre, any day.
11 Feb 2013, 14:35 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-62: I have been telling you this for some while Bakkies…..
They won’t win it this year…..but I’m predicting a new vision, spirit, discipline and hunger amongst the Aucklanders….And THAT on it’s own, sounds a warning.
If their tighties can hold their own in any way shape or form (yes, they might struggle – I admit), we might something of beauty….
Bakkies have you seen your Bulls fellas singing their song yet?
Anyone send you the link yet? Yes/No?
@Transformation-74: Guppifanboy reporting = extended periods of salmonella poisoning. Muchshittingandvomiting.
11 Feb 2013, 14:40 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-77:
yip
it made Gunther cry
11 Feb 2013, 14:46 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-78: With laughter is my guess……………..
11 Feb 2013, 14:46 pm
Some of the best coaches will be going head to head in this competition:
Jake White
John Plumtree
….and the rest.
11 Feb 2013, 14:48 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-77: advantage Stormers…
The Sharks have lost Super Rugby captain
Keegan Daniel for 6 weeks with a knee injury
and Tim Whitehead for 6-8 weeks with a
broken arm.
*cue Guppy wailing…
11 Feb 2013, 14:50 pm
Jacques Potgieter
*solo*
no i wont – be afraid –
ooohhhh hoooo hoooo
11 Feb 2013, 14:52 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-79:
i really would like to know who the PR/Marketing people are.
who brainstorms this stuff..?..
11 Feb 2013, 14:53 pm
Any one of the flankers could fill in at eighth man.
There are several players that could fill Whitehead’s spot. Move wingers…there are a lot of permutations.
There are a lot of the senior guys that could fill the captain’s shoes.
11 Feb 2013, 14:53 pm
@Transformation-81: The Hobbit starting is not exactly a disadvantage either
Only kidding, hope the fella recovers quickly. I do think Whitehead is a bigger loss for the guppies though. ***guppiewailingneverstopped?***
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-82: I was afraid. Veryfuckingafraid.
11 Feb 2013, 14:54 pm
@Transformation-81: None of them would make a Sharks 15 that I would choose so it’s not as bad as people think. Tim wouldn’t even feature on the bench IMO.
Eben on the other hand would walk into any SA side at 4. So advantage Sharks IMO.
11 Feb 2013, 14:55 pm
i really dont think Frans Steyn is made of the ‘Right Captaincy Stuff’.
i like him, a lot
i really do.
but i just dont see it.
11 Feb 2013, 14:56 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-85:
his eyes betrayed him
11 Feb 2013, 14:57 pm
Best Sharks trio is Coetzee/Alberts/Kanko. Deysel and Botes on the bench. All of them are better than Keegan if you ask me.
12 – 13 will be Steyn – Jordaan.
So no loss for the Sharks.
11 Feb 2013, 15:00 pm
@stormersboy-89:
Agreed….Daniels is not the do or die man for The Sharks…although he does add spark he is not the X-factor that Kanko is or could be.
11 Feb 2013, 15:02 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-87: Frankie Steyn is in the Pierre Spies-kak-as-cappy mold…brainfarts galore
11 Feb 2013, 15:03 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-83: Bulls marketing peeps Bakkies?……I would hazard a guess and say: Folk like you?
@stormersboy-89: Agree. Him starting is certainly no threat…. Although to be fair, Deysel, Alberts and Coetzee offer very much the same dishes off the same menu. …. Interesting to see where Kanko picks up again.
I beieve Whitehead to be the bigger loss purely because guppiesshytegetsreal with one hamstring tweak in the centres…. No that well stocked there, unless JPP is once more considered.
11 Feb 2013, 15:05 pm
@keo-66: I’ll write a weekly article for free. Mahala. Gratis.
11 Feb 2013, 15:07 pm
@stormersboy-89:
kanko better than keegan cullen?!!
kanko had 2/3 good games last year towards the end of the comp when other cats were moeg…keegan cullen was indeed the best guppy loosie after marcell stats wise.
kanko only fixed their faultering lineout.
11 Feb 2013, 15:07 pm
@willievz-76: Much of a muchness bewteen the 2 really. Johnson was a bit better @ goalkicking though, but did not have the same psychological effect on the opposition.
11 Feb 2013, 15:09 pm
@stormersboy-89: Said this exact same thing to Heavens Game last week. He was beside himself. Just couldn’t fathom how Keegan Cullen wouldn’t make the starting loosies.
11 Feb 2013, 15:11 pm
@Transformation-94: Sorry transie. Gotta side with SB. As a trio, SB’s choices are better as a unit. If you were to choose 3 inviduals to play in a loose trio, Keegan comes into the reckoning.
11 Feb 2013, 15:13 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-92: Yes, it does weaken the depth, but not the starting 15. Lambie can play 12, as can Bosman. 13′s are not as simple as you say, with maybe JPP as cover,
Obviously not ideal, but there will always be injuries and it could have been a lot worse.
@Transformation-94: By a country mile. Kanko would have been the Springbok 8th man last year if he had stayed put. Keegan was at best 4th choice. They even tried Coetzee there. Flatters to deceive in my opinion. i don’t hate the guy or anything, just don’t rate him as highly as many other 8th men. He’s a better 6 than 8 IMO.
11 Feb 2013, 15:16 pm
@pompies2-96: Look….HG is a special case. He wears K-Dog jamjams and follows him on twotter…… It’s fanboy adoration more than anything else.
11 Feb 2013, 15:16 pm
@Transformation-91:
well, if he sings anything like Pierre then the Sharkies are truly farked this season.
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-92:
it was cringeable, Pedigree
totally cringeable
i think Ludeke’s playing mind games with the guys
11 Feb 2013, 15:17 pm
@pompies2-96: It’s mostly just Sharkies who love the cult of Keegan. That’s OK, it’s no skin off my teeth.
Just opinion at the end of the day.
11 Feb 2013, 15:18 pm
@Transformation-94:
thing is
neither Kanko or Keegan is better than each other.
11 Feb 2013, 15:18 pm
@stormersboy-98: Not sure about 6 before 8. Defense a bit lacking. Here, I’m not talking about tackles completed, but offensive defense and holding an attacking player off the ground in a tackle.
11 Feb 2013, 15:20 pm
@pompies2-97: *wears devil’s avocado cloak*
eegan cullen outplays all of deysel, botes & kanko. kanko on D us nowhere…he crabs as much as Spies avoiding contact when he has ball-in-hand, keegan cullen is elusive, punches way above his weight plus keeps the ball alive with his offload game.
11 Feb 2013, 15:20 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-102: We’ll agree to disagree. I’ll definitely go for Kanko over Keegan.
11 Feb 2013, 15:23 pm
hmmm…..whats all this about?
11 Feb 2013, 15:25 pm
@pompies2-103: True, Keegan is soft on defense, but his fetching and “business” makes him more akin to a natural 6 for me.
But that’s just me.
11 Feb 2013, 15:27 pm
@Transformation-104: Deysel, Botes, Kanko are all very different players. Keegan has some skills superior to all of them. But, he doesn’t have the same strength game as Deysel, doesn’t have the same technique @ the breakdown as Botes and for allround skills, doesn’t beat Kanko. BTW, I think you’ll find Kanko’s D has vastly improved over the last couple of seasons or so. Like I said, if you looking to select a complimentary loose trio, then Keegan doesn’t feature. If selecting 3 individual loosies, he might come into the equation. Just my thoughts.
11 Feb 2013, 15:27 pm
the sharks are well blessed with loosies so keegs is a loss but i am sure he will come back firing on all cylinders.
an ultimate team man and a player like wayne fyvie who may not go any further than superrugby but is loved by the sharks fans for having the heart of a lion.
11 Feb 2013, 15:30 pm
@The Rangerman-109: “an ultimate team man and a player like wayne fyvie who may not go any further than superrugby but is loved by the sharks fans for having the heart of a lion.” This is true.
11 Feb 2013, 15:31 pm
although
to be honest
i dont know who breaks my spirits more when seeing them fully not in flight
Kanko or Spies
its just that intital moment they get their hands on the ball and.. poised.. ready to take flight and with such a burst of excited energy they release themselves into takeoff…
just that heavy sense of anticipation
in that short, electric intstant, your brain tells you: ‘o fok, hier kom n ding!!!’
and then BOOM! they’re away
and for a brief moment you think: ‘nee Here, nou gaan die vonke waai!!’
‘THIS IS IT!!!’
and then its over….
and you wonder wtf happened to the BOOM..?…
i hate it when that happens.
11 Feb 2013, 15:32 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-111: All show and no Go. Like a tjoekoe.
11 Feb 2013, 15:33 pm
so much promise it hurts
11 Feb 2013, 15:35 pm
@The Rangerman-109:
sometimes you need to play like a lion.
11 Feb 2013, 15:35 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-111:
I wouldnt put Kanko anywhere near Spies at the moment.
They’re not in the same league. Spies 2009 was great but since then? Powderpuff galore.
Kanko, in the last season or 2, has taken over him in every aspect of play; defence, stregnth with ball in hand, lineout, even speed.
Im looking forward to see how Spies goes this year because I dont believe he can be worse than he has been for the past 3 seasons.
11 Feb 2013, 15:38 pm
So, Daniel will be out for 6 weeks. Effectivel missing 4 weeks of Super Rugby.
Whitehead, maybe 2 weeks longer. Farking big loss this one.
Bissie will be back in time to tour with the Sharks in April.
11 Feb 2013, 15:46 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-111:
And they trip over a blade of grass or stumble over smoke coming from the stands?
Boom. Down.
@John Galt-115: Spies knows this is honestly a make or break season for him…..or rather, he should know.
11 Feb 2013, 15:46 pm
@stormersboy-107: he is soft on defense?
one handoff and thats what you think haha.
so then schalk is also soft given that lambie face planted him?
no man, thats twaddle
11 Feb 2013, 15:57 pm
Daniel is a good player,but he got rather manhandled at the latter part of last season.Not much real depth for the Sharks in terms of real quality players(loosies).Lots of run-of-the-mill players.
11 Feb 2013, 16:00 pm
@S_K-119: ja, two out of four bok loosies and an 8 that went to japland when he had his chance to be a no brainer starter.
11 Feb 2013, 16:00 pm
@The Rangerman-118: No, actually for a great part of the first half of 2012 SR he was right up towards the top of the rogues gallery of tackles missed. That’s where I get my opinion from.
Admittedly the Sharks team struggled as a whole but still, it is what it is.
11 Feb 2013, 16:02 pm
@stormersboy-121: can you show me these stats please?
11 Feb 2013, 16:03 pm
@pompies2-112:
yip
heavy on the Show, light on the Go
11 Feb 2013, 16:06 pm
@The Rangerman-122: No, i can’t be arsed to go and look them up. If you go through the threads from last year circa April – June you will find them though. I posted them then. Rugbyheaven will only show the cumulative stats at the end of the year so it’s useless to go there now.
11 Feb 2013, 16:09 pm
@John Galt-115:
i dunno, John
he’s had brief flutters of scintillating form, this is true.
but too often he’s reintroduced us to that side of him no one rates.
11 Feb 2013, 16:13 pm
@The Rangerman-122:
http://www.sarugby.com/forum.cfm?threadid=798
number 9
11 Feb 2013, 16:13 pm
@John Galt-115:
agreed though, there have been times when Pierre does that ‘starts out straight then quickly goes sideways only to then turn around and with his back showing to the oppostion reverses forward’ thing that has made me abuse the remote.
11 Feb 2013, 16:17 pm
@ufo-126: Would you call Willem Alberts a weak defender?
11 Feb 2013, 16:17 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-117:
such an anticlimax
rugby’s never meant to like this
11 Feb 2013, 16:17 pm
@The Rangerman-120: I would rather go to war with Vermeulen than Kanko. Kanko is not a consistent quality performer at super rugby level.Maybe he had a great season in Japan.
11 Feb 2013, 16:18 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-129:
to like this = to be like this
11 Feb 2013, 16:21 pm
@willievz-128:
don’t shoot me… i’m only the piano player…!!
no, of course not bud… but that’s wasn’t the point SB was making…
alberts was on this list because when he came back from injury his game fitness and defense was indeed weak…
but as his fitness improved and he got more game time so his defense got back to what we all know and love about the guy…
keegan was on the list too early in the season… that is a fact…
but he too improved with the season… as did the sharks form…
11 Feb 2013, 16:22 pm
on the face of it i am concerned for all of the “Big Three” franchises.
Kings are bread from heaven right now
11 Feb 2013, 16:23 pm
Five guppies in the missed tackle ‘log leaders’ for last year’s tournie…
McLeod, Alberts, Coetzee, Whitehead and JPP. Ruggastats in Oz say so, it must be true?
Kanko and Spies are 7′s players. Prefer Kanko to Spies though…(although much of a kakness in general)
11 Feb 2013, 16:32 pm
Seemingly, despite missing tackles for fun the Sharks made it all the way to the final last season.I give them huge credit for that wonderful achievement.
11 Feb 2013, 16:34 pm
Yup Coetzee had a lot of missed tackles but he was one of the top for most tackles in the tournament too
11 Feb 2013, 16:35 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-134:
Coetzee had the top tackle stat in the whole comp and was in the top 10 tackles missed.
Think abou that for a second.
Farking unbelievable work rate.
11 Feb 2013, 16:37 pm
Anyhoo, tackle stats are highly contentious if you ask me.
Not like cut and dried Offload Stats or Tries Scored etc.
Too many variables involved.
11 Feb 2013, 16:38 pm
There you go Rangerman. I’m not sure at which week that stat was but it much the same for most of the competition.
Yes, I conceded that the Sharks were struggling as a team, and the large amount of players in the rogues gallery reflects that.
But i mentioned that Keegan has issues on defense, the cult of Keegan issued a strong denial and here you have an example of that, as i said.
Now I’m not saying that he’s the worst defender out there but is obviously an area that he needs to work on.
11 Feb 2013, 16:40 pm
@John Galt-137: True and you could then start to talk about completion rates, where Coetzee did well. I think only Kolisi had a higher completion rate but an overall lower count.
This was just to support an opinion that I have about Keegan. It’s just that, an opinion but it’s clearly not the total “twaddle” that Ranger thinks it is.
11 Feb 2013, 16:44 pm
@stormersboy-139:
Funny thing is, he is 12th on the tackles made list and doesnt feature on the tackles missed list.
But again, tackle stats are dubious at times.
11 Feb 2013, 16:56 pm
@John Galt-141: I was referring to the 1st half of the season. he improved in the 2nd half for sure, but there you have it. His defensive frailties were not initially raised by me if you go and have a look, but i do happen to agree with the sentiment.
He’s still a valuable player and deserved a try at Bok level, as many of the favoured players above him were injured and he was rightfully next in line. It didn’t work out for him but that’s not to say that it won’t at some stage in the future.
Very few players have the perfect game, Keegan is no exception.
11 Feb 2013, 17:00 pm
What the hell. Bakkies I just watched that video of stand by me and all I can say is what the ^%`{ were they thinking !
Bloody eyeballs stuff. Would rather suffer a thousands seaths than have my team shame me like that – I would spend eternity in relegation hell that see my team degrade themselves like that.
They have ruined Mapoe and Visage for life.
Have that video pulled from youtube now before it goes bully viral.
11 Feb 2013, 17:12 pm
@stormersboy-140:
@John Galt-141:
agreed on stats not giving the ‘be all that ends all’ picture.
it only took one ‘bus is full’ hand off on Keegan’s attempted tackle in a final to throw the value of his tackle stats to moer.
more often than not, no two tackles have the same value.
some tackles will lose a game some wont.
11 Feb 2013, 17:13 pm
@RL-143:
it is shocking, RL
shocking
Frans is playing some serious mind games with the players.
11 Feb 2013, 17:14 pm
camp glee-draad…?
11 Feb 2013, 17:20 pm
Paris – South African-born flanker Antonie Claassen on Monday was called up by coach Philippe Saint-Andre for the 23-strong French squad to prepare for the Six Nations match against England at Twickenham on February 23.
Claassen, 28, was one of five changes to the squad that went down 16-6 to Wales at the Stade de France on Saturday leaving France winless after two games and bottom of the Six Nations standings.
Claassen, the son of former Springbok player Wynand Claassen, is the ninth foreign-born player to be included in a French international line-up, the last being another South African centre, Brian Liebenberg, in 2003. He currently plays for French club Castres.
11 Feb 2013, 17:22 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-145: opposition teams, rival fans and even bullies will be using this video to ridicule the boys.
Frans may as well use it as some kind of motivation tool when the jabs, punches and stings come in because – all because of this horrible video.
11 Feb 2013, 17:35 pm
@RL-148: They didn’t get the reaction they wanted from the pink shirts so took it to another level. I hope this video works because if it doesn’t, they’ll probably be forced to do the haka wearing mankinis in Dunedin in mid winter
11 Feb 2013, 18:25 pm
What is this all about??
11 Feb 2013, 18:46 pm
I watched the Bulls music video.I felt very awkward watching it.
11 Feb 2013, 23:40 pm
Unfortunately this is another season that a NZ team will win Super Rugby. In fact I would not be surprised if they the top 3 sides in the competition.
Sharks – no improvement from last year
Stormers – ditto, need to avoid same horrendous injury tally to be competitive
Bulls – young side, a year away from really having a shout
Cheetahs – squad too small
Kings – joke
Boks will still be good though
12 Feb 2013, 00:12 am
@DumpsterDiver-152: thanks for sharing your opinion with us.
12 Feb 2013, 07:05 am
@ufo-146:
@RL-148:
tlak about facing your fears….
@Dawn-150:
the Bulls team/squad sing ‘stand by me’ as some sort of confidence building attempt at overcoming their fears.
it leaves you in a strange place by the end.
http://www.ougrote.com/2013/02/11/video-the-blue-bulls-sing-stand-by-me-plus-lyrics/
12 Feb 2013, 07:31 am
hehehe
be brave bakks…!
I don’t think it’s that bad… well done to them for having the guts to go through with it… a lot tougher than running out for a super rugby game…
I heard that the bulls new tv show will feature pierre spies interviewing the players in the form of songs… and they will answer by singing too…
sort of les misérables meets glee club meets haka…
choreography by mrs broz…!!
should be entertaining…
12 Feb 2013, 08:11 am
@ufo-155:
hehehe
true Ufo, it takes a helluva lot of guts to put yourself on show like that.
you could see a lot of the guys were just kakking themselves but they stuck to it.
i dont know if this show will stick on me.
perhaps one for the ladies.
15 Feb 2013, 23:35 pm
All time back three
15. Serge Blanco
14. Rupeni Caucauninica
11. Jonah Lomu
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.