Here lies a tyrant
19 Feb 2013
MARK KEOHANE, writing in Business Day Sport Monthly, says former South African rugby chief Louis Luyt was a power-hungry egotist who did more harm than good in his role as leader.
Louis Luyt is dead but the lie that defines his legacy to the game as legendary must also be buried. He was destructive in everything he did as president of the South African Rugby Football Union (Sarfu) and motivated by his own agenda and ego and he was a risk to the future of the game.
He functioned on fiction because only he knew what was closer to fact.
This is a condemnation of Luyt the Sarfu president. It is not a reflection on his right to be respected as a father, husband and friend.
He was a crass leader who thrived on the humiliation of others and he caused pain to many people with decisions that were not based on rugby but on his own insecurity and paranoia. There can’t be reward for lacking emotional intelligence and there can never be justification for the chaos.
Luyt’s legacy was a dictatorship that threatened more than a sport’s unity. He harmed the sport and he embarrassed the sport without consequence or without remorse. He did it regularly and saw it as refusing to be intimidated.
He was a reminder of everything the world detested in apartheid South Africa but he survived on the fears of those who were uncertain about the future and ill-informed and still related to noise as leadership, when introspection and reflection were words more appropriate to change. A legacy is earned through innovation and the impact of an action; not an ability just to react.
Luyt was a fighter and his strength was based on survival. Sarfu needed calm and vision and he provided chaos and confrontation.
It suited his needs because the noise was part of the illusion that he was taking charge of rugby’s future. He was a fascinating character because of his contradictions, but he was not good for the game and he stifled progress through his inability to transform his own thinking. He was unsure about his status and he always overcompensated with boasts when unsure, be it because of lack of knowledge or because he threatened his ability to use Sarfu to define his influence in a community that used his voice when necessary but never fully endorsed him as part of the exclusive brotherhood.
This was down to class and not race. It was this lack of acceptance that tortured him. But he knew about survival because of a background that battled poverty. Wealth would also be measured on status and worth. To get there he would fight. So he fought because that meant not allowing for discussion and not risking being exposed on an intellectual level.
He was a clever man but he lacked introspection because of insecurities in not having a high schooling. It meant he only knew how to make statements.
In his world that was strength. To ask a question was to invite trouble.
Leadership is at its most seductive when those in charge can take pleasure out of another’s achievement. Luyt could never do that because he could not even take pleasure out of his own successes.
He had an incredible work ethic, which intimidated and compensated for an inability to see beyond what worked for him personally and as a leader. He also blurred the power of knowledge with the gathering of information on individuals to further entrench his presidency. He had menace when there should have been mentorship. He never made an apology for any of his actions and a man who always thinks he gets it right is a man who is rarely getting it right.
He embraced those vulnerable to his projections of strength and bullying and he never saw the contradiction in how he applied the morality of the God-fearing man and the lack of morality in his manipulation of people.
We once debated loyalty and he was absolute. People, he said, crossed him once and thought they had won. He told them to enjoy the feeling because he would make sure they spent the rest of their lives reminded of what price to pay for betrayal in loyalty.
His life was interesting but he was too preoccupied in the potential of others to be the enemy that he found a reason to justify an agenda that in turn would justify a reaction for a confrontational engagement.
His ego would never allow him modesty and he insisted he had earned the right to be called doctor. Titles and status are what he felt defined his characters. His actions were for gain. When was it ever about rugby?
His rugby world was a creation to compensate for what he felt he lacked in a personal space. He could be charming but his charm was too often determined by the personal gain. He bored easily if he was not the primary beneficiary. His mind was always busy but the intent wasn’t always flattering and he excused any criticism as a necessary to protect the game from those who didn’t understand it. He blamed the government and rugby was his status for greater acceptance in an Afrikaans elite that would never see him as their equal.
The bully was his default mechanism and if he was full of bravado he didn’t have to front his fears of being inferior. He did not trust anyone but celebrated just how many enemies he had. Enemies caused fear. Friends could only cause confusion.
He was convinced he needed no one to survive but he never understood that to survive is not to necessarily inspire. Not that it would have been a consideration. He was angry that he was disliked although he denied it and there was an element in him that deliberately added to the dislike. The man who made rugby his kingdom was always aware that the boy in him wanted acknowledgement and reward.
He never found his place in South African society and always felt he had been short-changed. If he wasn’t getting the recognition then why would he celebrate anyone else.
He took nothing from the game unless he was the beneficiary. He justified everything in the name of Springbok rugby and the Afrikaans culture and he manipulated the game that represented the culture more than a sport. Where most would find a smile he found suspicion.
I liked him but he was not happy.
I always got the feeling he wouldn’t even allow for that because that could be an admission he had not won.
He was always in conflict and his tenure was about fighting whoever he felt provided a cover to the real issue, which was his insecurity.
He took but he gave little.
It is one thing to preach from a self-made pedestal but a leader of men is also an inspiration to the very men he leads.
He wanted mystique but then couldn’t resist telling you what he had done for South African rugby. He created an identity he believed would give him acceptance and he alienated every dominating personality.
He was a preacher of what he wanted portrayed, yet the intention to be liked and revered was not something he could ask for, so as he lost a disciple who realised the legend is what makes the man but the actions of the man that confirms the flaws in the legend.
If the game was his passion and the future of the game was his only concern we would be talking about his vision, his succession plan and his leadership.
The story would be of the guy who turned rags into silk but knew God. It is embarrassing. The only thing he gave rugby was conflict and blood. He adopted a militant style approach in which he spoke and never allowed for a response.
He stripped players of power and humiliated them and threatened their futures in the media. In a country where fear and conflict were positives that someone was in charge, he put himself in charge of the game and was never asked what he was actually going to do to make it the game for all South Africans.
He used the divide and rule among blacks and whites because he recognised weakness in an individual and played the vulnerabilities to facilitate whatever outcome that comes with uncertainty.
He took Nelson Mandela and the government to court to prove he was still a white Afrikaner who would not be intimidated by the black government.
He made sure it was a page one report.
He did it, he said, to show Afrikaners still had a voice and still had fight. He then used rugby as the punching bag.
He used culture, white fears and black unknowns to have so many applauding his strengths. But it was never about resolution or calm. It was about conflict and chaos because when there is no fight then there is usually reflection. In a fight there is only time to react.
Luyt’s legacy conflicts with every single entity that makes up the fabric of the game. He took the game he supposedly loved and made it his own game. He was an untouchable because he manipulated the executive structure – and when fear no longer sufficed neither did his games inspire even laughter.
He still couldn’t see the moral crime in subjecting Mandela to take the witness stand. He claimed victory but it also confirmed stupidity.
He tried so hard to create an identity of the Lions but he was a railway clerk whose arrogance and defiance was a misrepresentation of the culture whose silence he interpreted as a fight.
He fired by fax and turned the most disgraceful of acts into a kind of legend which applauded a man who was prepared to make the hard calls. All he knew was hardship and that is all he gave back to South African rugby.
It is disgusting that he was allowed to operate in such isolation and as a law unto himself. He clearly had a mind that favoured his own survival but emotional intelligence is the result of an environment and tutorship and being taught, not self-taught.
He never added value to the game’s evolution. There is no legacy to applaud. His rugby administration was a contradiction. Morality was as interpretive as was loyalty and betrayal.
Rugby was the platform for Luyt to turn a lost soul into a tortured one and he tried to make everyone believe that his soul knew only sacrifice.
He was a sad man because not only did he derive pleasure at the expense of others but the ultimate humiliation was of his own doing because his identity and influence believed there was substance to his existence, but he could never get what he thought was a show of strength. And arrogance was ignorance and in degrees of ignorance the worst form is when there is a belief that all the ugly qualities that make a leader uninspiring are presented as strengths of a no-nonsense leader.
Luyt did not entertain minds that would expose the limitations of his own and it is one thing to fight but another to succeed without a fight.
A day before his death no one cared for his rants. A day after the myth is magnified. The platitudes have been predictable and inoffensive but the inane nature is more insult than compliment to the King of Ellis Park and self-proclaimed King of the Rugby Jungle.
In death he did no evil. In life he only knew evil.
Luyt’s final act as South African rugby chief was to embarrass the intellect and integrity of Afrikaans-speaking South Africans who are excited by inclusion on the world map and not offended that it was not listed as the chosen planet.
The good doctor was so insecure at what he hadn’t experienced because of his environment that he believed titles would create the illusion of intelligence and that fear was just another way of making sure no one disputed he was the boss.
His decision to humiliate one of the world’s saints was the act of a sinner; alternatively a man who was showing his lack of class, education and upbringing. His attempts to justify his action and his conviction in doing so belong on The Jerry Springer Show.
He always spoke of not needing to be popular and then he found something in popularity that he sold to himself as weakness.
Come to think of it, he rarely spoke about what was good for South African rugby. He always spoke about what he was doing for South African rugby and he created the chaos and never had time to explain what it was that kept him so busy. He didn’t give South African rugby professionalism. He didn’t care. In the last few years all he did was condemn the government. He manipulated the weakness in rugby’s administration to impress his strength.
He was an impostor as a leader and the game deserved so much more. Luyt, when he lived, benefited from the illusion of his leadership.
Don’t allow the lie to continue.
– This article first appeared in the March issue of Business Day Sport Monthly, which is distributed FREE with the newspaper on the second last Friday of every month.
748 Comments
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19 Feb 2013, 08:32 am
@ufo-40: exactly.
this is the scrambling of a coward who couldnt face luyt whilst he was alive.
i have no love for luyt though he did sanction the sharks (natal) entrance into cc top level.
he was also a bit of a do o s when it came to the way he handled ian mac but he did good as well as bad and i prefer to focus on the good he did.
19 Feb 2013, 08:32 am
@Transformation-50:
Dr No
19 Feb 2013, 08:33 am
and Mark is Dr Doolittle
19 Feb 2013, 08:34 am
Re the article, I agree in some respects & disagree in others, but Keo has the right to present his opinion, & others their contrary views.
The following statements by Keo have always intrigued me about LL’s position within Afrikanerdom:
“He was a fascinating character because of his contradictions …”
“… a(n Afrikaner) community that used his voice when necessary but never fully endorsed him as part of the exclusive brotherhood. This was down to class and not race. It was this lack of acceptance that tortured him. But he knew about survival because of a background that battled poverty.”
” … rugby was his status for greater acceptance in an Afrikaans elite that would never see him as their equal”
“The man who made rugby his kingdom was always aware that the boy in him wanted acknowledgement and reward”
**
Any thoughts about this from those “in-the-know”?
19 Feb 2013, 08:34 am
@victoriabok-49:
Miskien doen ek dit net, hy voel in elk geval ‘n veer vir ons.
19 Feb 2013, 08:36 am
The evil that man do live after them, the good is often interred with their bones – so said William Shakespear in Julius Caesar. Louis Luyt was evil just like many other dictators, ask Madiba. He called him a pittiless dictactor. He knew from experience.
Great article Keo.
19 Feb 2013, 08:36 am
Keo is a kiwi – sent here by the NZRU to undermine SA Rugby. His kiwi brother is imbedded in SASCOCK to do the little mans bidding from that angle.
He was on a coke high when he penned this piece that is for sure.
19 Feb 2013, 08:38 am
we have had the “revolution” article, a bunch of luke articles and the chadenfreude article now we get the luyt article.
its interesting at least but keo is our version of jerry springer, a man who thrives on polarising opinion and in fact actively encourages it as it creates the space for him to operate in.
he would have made a helluva apartheid operative because his moduc operandi is similar.
sadly for him, the rest of the gang have jumped ship and he is on his own after they merrily went along with it for a while.
i hope keo. co . za never goes under but handling poison can eventually lead to an error that ends it all for the assasain.
19 Feb 2013, 08:38 am
@Transformation-50:
Luyt is a Doctor in the same way that Julius is a matriculant.
19 Feb 2013, 08:41 am
@ufo-40: Perhaps we should consider this – the article is not written to Luyt (an apparently incorrigible person) but to those who would glorify a myth. Keo attacks the myth, exposing it for what it is. Have you never worked with a destructive leader like this? It is a frustrating and demeaning experience and it pushes out a whole generation of good people who could have contributed signification. What sense would there be in attacking someone who had been relegated to insignificance. It is the resurgence of admiration (for what Luyt had done) that triggered this article I suspect.
19 Feb 2013, 08:42 am
Mark, aside from coming off a a coward for writing this piece post mortem, did you even take time to edit your own piece before posting.
This is as shambolic a piece of journalism as Ive ever had the misfortune of reading.
‘He was a reminder of everything the world detested in apartheid South Africa but he survived on the fears of those who were uncertain about the future and ill-informed and still related to noise as leadership, when introspection and reflection were words more appropriate to change. A legacy is earned through innovation and the impact of an action; not an ability just to react.’
I mean, for fk sakes man, what is that?
19 Feb 2013, 08:43 am
My first time commenting on this site. I just couldn’t hold my tongue!
Luyt wasn’t the most love person but he got things done. Same can be said about your much beloved p0epol ButtCheecks who’s you proclaim is the father of the Messiah!
We’re you bullied by an afrikaner when you were younger Mark? Cause you seem to be a little sour towards them/us.. I can kind of understand the He/she(Transie)’s chip on the shoulder but what did they/we ever do to you… Did the girls get picked before you in the cul de sac rugga games?
But like one of your sidekick mentioned earlier… Very ‘courages’ of you to bag on a dead man!
The least you could have done, was do it well… How the hell can you be a profesional journalist???
19 Feb 2013, 08:45 am
@Transformation-46: geology now a banned word?
19 Feb 2013, 08:45 am
Stem saam, dit sal altyd die Afrikaner se skuld wees in die oe van mense soos keo en kie, dis dalk tyd dat keo ophou Percy se wit onderbroeke snyf, die walms gaan na sy kop toe
19 Feb 2013, 08:45 am
He had a PhD Business
Administration, a PhD in Commerce
and a law degree.
19 Feb 2013, 08:46 am
actually mark… on second thoughts…
i’m done… i’m outta here for good…
yeah… only one little old me but i’m voting with my feet…
i am sick of your OTT self-important, hit-generating negativity masquerading as honesty and journalistic integrity… it’s BS…
it’s not about louis luyt… as i said i didn’t like the man… it’s about your disrespect for your posters… you need them for your business to succeed…
haven’t the last couple of months taught you anything…? or are you too arrogant to learn anything…? you don’t need this cr@p to generate hits and debates on your blog…
you have the ability to influence rugby and rugby followers positively by focusing on the good and redistributing positive energy… and getting people to pull in the same direction…
yet instead you choose to use your platform to sow division, rancor and hatred… ironically in much the same way of which you accuse louis luyt…
you know mark… you continually underestimate and patronise the posters on your blog…
when things looked bad for you a few weeks ago many of these people said they would continue to post here and support you even in the face of hsm promoting their own blog… but instead of acknowledging that and building on the sentiment expressed you only think that empowers you to be even more obnoxious…?
as much as i’ve always respected and said i admire the freedom you allow on this blog… it is the diversity of the posters that make your site the success it is… there are much better articles on other blogs but they don’t have the traffic and support you do… yet you continually preach to these posters in a most distasteful and alienating manner…
you don’t deserve the support shown you by your posters… because for you it’s not about rugby is it…? it’s just about you…
you really do need to engage in some serious introspection mark… there is a growing ugliness about you that you should recognise and try to deal with…
it really is not pleasant…
so good luck to you… but i will no longer waste my time on your blog…
this is not a rant about me… i’m a nobody… but mark if you don’t start showing your posters some respect you’re going to lose them….
cheers all… been good knowing and chatting to you all… i’m outta here for good… …and the shark fans (and a couple of stormers fans) all cheer…!!
go stormers…
19 Feb 2013, 08:46 am
@RL-57:
No you guys do a great job of undermining each other in the Rainbow nation.
19 Feb 2013, 08:47 am
@Transformation-50:
PhD in Business Admin.
19 Feb 2013, 08:48 am
This article is very poor form in my opinion.
The only thing I know of Luydt was that he was a verkrampte plaas boer who negotiated our best ever superrugby pay package.
I see no need for an article like ths after he has passed, what purpose could it serve other than to massage the authors ego?
Where was this article when he was in power?
what cowardice.
19 Feb 2013, 08:48 am
@ufo-66:
Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water now.
19 Feb 2013, 08:50 am
@Peter Mkata-56:
Seriously? You really think this is a great article?
Look, no ones denying that Luyt was a bit of a d ick but if you think this is a good article then you have nothing more than a pre school education.
19 Feb 2013, 08:51 am
Court officials are asking over 100 journos to “decide amongst themselves” who gets into blade runners bail hearing.
#oscargate
19 Feb 2013, 08:51 am
> He was a reminder of everything the world detested in apartheid South Africa but he survived on the fears of those who were uncertain about the future and ill-informed and still related to noise as leadership
> He was an impostor as a leader
He was a *******, but still didn’t do to bad for a guy with std 8, a railway clerk like you called him
Free State lock and captain
And with no-one backing him and the Broederbond against him still becoming a succesful businessman. Making SA Rugby professional and keeping Packer out
And who are you to criticize him?
Seeing that you suddenly know so much about leadership, please enlighten us what you have achieved?
A shitstirring, washed up journalist promoting an over-the-hill flanker at any opportunity, while being his commie godfather dad’s bit.ch?
All while drinking, sniffing coke and pumping prostitutes?
19 Feb 2013, 08:52 am
@WhatIf-60:
You are wasting your time. Emotion has taken over here. Some poeple have withdrawn or taken refuge into laagers already.
19 Feb 2013, 08:53 am
Sid Going thought ole Louis was a wonderful host and generous man.
19 Feb 2013, 08:54 am
@Transformation-50:
What did Keo study?
Journalism?
19 Feb 2013, 08:54 am
A bit heavy handed but some truths in there. SARU need strong leaders but it needs good leaders. Luyt was one out of two whereas the current crop are nought out of two.
19 Feb 2013, 08:54 am
@Peter Mkata-56:
and where is our beloved Madiba’s voice when it comes to commenting on the Malema’s, zuma’,etc….
very easy to stick the boot into an afrikaaner not so easy when it is one of your own,is it?
19 Feb 2013, 08:55 am
@ufo-66:
Hang around UFO.
19 Feb 2013, 08:56 am
@Peter Mkata-74:
> Some poeple have withdrawn
Said the poepol
19 Feb 2013, 08:57 am
@John Galt-68: from which university?
19 Feb 2013, 08:57 am
@Te Rangatira-75:
I doubt the 95 Ab’s would concur though Rangi.
19 Feb 2013, 08:58 am
@RL-57:
> His kiwi brother is imbedded in SASCOCK to do the little mans bidding from that angle.
And Keo’s impaled on LUKESCOCK
19 Feb 2013, 09:00 am
@WhatIf-60:
So be it, but I dont recall anyone really glorifying the ‘myth’ there is no confusion of how Luyt ruled and his reign ended due to his short comings. So why rant on about it?
Keo is really just creating a myth about a myth to write a poor article. Jeez some sentences just dont make any sense. Paragraph sentences, whats up with that? Im no journalist, but his articles are becoming more and more mediocre.
19 Feb 2013, 09:00 am
I see that the race card has been plucked from the deck….this could get pretty ugly so I think I’m going to skip the rest of this thread.
19 Feb 2013, 09:01 am
@ufo-66: and I was so looking forward to doing battle against you this year
new guppy vs the veteran brokeback … the mediocre AC vs IRANZ Plum – good (black and white) vs evil (blue and white).
Cheers and smell you later.
19 Feb 2013, 09:02 am
@John Galt-61: Strangely Luyt drew the ire of the apartheid government for meeting the ANC in exile….and was responsible for the rebel tours…
19 Feb 2013, 09:02 am
@ufo-66:
I am with you ufo, will at the very least take a sabbatical until keo comes out of rehab…
Cheers all.
19 Feb 2013, 09:03 am
Farewell to two greats and Sevens shocks
——————————————————————————–
by Tony Johnson 06/02/2013, 08:40
This is my first column for 2013, so to all readers of the supersport.com site, I trust you have had a good Christmas/New Year.
To start, condolences to the families of Morne van der Merwe and Louis Luyt, both of whom have passed away in recent times.
Morne was a popular, cornerstone member of the Wellington Lions team that won our national championship, the Air New Zealand Cup, in 2000.
The final against favourites Canterbury was a thriller, laced with heroic contributions. Norm Hewitt, the former All Black hooker played the last 20 minutes with a broken arm, and Morne carried on despite taking a head knock…something you wouldn’t be allowed to do now, but it’s just as well for Wellington that he did because somehow he managed to cut down Canterbury’s flying Fijian winger when he seemed set to score a winning try….as another great character of a prop, the late John Drake used to say, props can run as fast as anyone, but only when they really have to!
Wellingtonians have paid tribute to Morne…Hewitt rated him among the top 6-8 props he played with or against, while other players have recalled his excellent guitar playing at the team get-togethers that can be so crucial in forging a strong bond.
As for Louis Luyt, well at the peak of his powers Louis was a somewhat villainous figure in the eyes of New Zealanders, as he was, at times I’m sure, to many South Africans.
He was seen as a power broker behind the Cavaliers tour that caused so much division in the NZ game, and after rising to the top of South African Rugby, and playing such a role in making the 1995 RWC tournament such a historic success, Louis put noses out of joint with some less than diplomatic comments at the post-tournament dinner following South Africa’s epic win over the All Blacks.
Roll forward to Cape Town 2001 when I made two significant purchases. One was a bracelet for my new girlfriend…now my wife, the other was a copy of the “unauthorised” Max du Preez biography of Louis Luyt, which I found so utterly fascinating that I read it cover to cover on the flight home.
I discussed the book on my sports spot on the Newstalk radio show with the country’s leading broadcaster, Paul Holmes, who had met and was also fascinated by Louis. Our conversations sparked such interest in the book that a shipment of copies had to be imported into New Zealand.
Armed with information from the book, I set up an interview with Dr Luyt two years later in Durban. I told Holmes (who co-incidentally also died last week) I was going to ask all the tough questions he had failed to ask when he’d interviewed him, on account of him being “seduced” by the charms of his host!
Easier said than done. We arrived at the Luyt home near Durban and were met with such effusive hospitality that I found it nigh impossible to take a hard-line approach. I tried, but he was a master of talking around a curly question without really answering it, and seemed genuinely aggrieved by the suggestion that he was, as so many had claimed, a bully.
Our crew eventually left, having done our interview, cleaned up the platter of delicious sandwiches, drunk fine coffee, politely declined the offer of a beer, chatted to Louis and his lovely wife Adri, and admired his beautiful home. It was a very enjoyable experience and while the hour-long interview was well received back home, I knew that I had been denied the really hard-hitting feature I had gone looking for because I too had found it hard to get past the charming side of Louis Luyt.
Dr Luyt was not perfect. He made plenty of enemies, often with people he’d been close to, and he brought a lot of criticism on himself, but there is also something to admire about what he was able to achieve, especially from such humble beginnings. His role in seeing off the rebel World Rugby Corporation (WRC) should never be understated….it was he who made the most significant move when he made the Springboks an offer they couldn’t refuse, breaking the back of the player-led revolution.
I am just glad that I was able to meet with him, and see the “other” side of him, to be able to put some balance into my perceptions of the man when much of what we had read and heard about him from afar was the controversial stuff.
19 Feb 2013, 09:05 am
I hope “Cheeky” and all his cronies give you a seat in the “Presidents “suite on Saturday to watch the “Watson” 15 take a beating. This is my last visit to your “Mickey Mouse” political Forum.
19 Feb 2013, 09:08 am
@RL-57: Keo is an NZRU plant sent to undermine SA rugby?
its your priovincialism and your admin that undermine SA rugby
you “truthers” really are nutjobs..
19 Feb 2013, 09:08 am
I am with general view here, no need after his death to write this.
It will be very interesting to get some comment from some of the people that worked with him. I do know that a previous WP Rugby President that I think was Luyt;s deputy was “skyt bang” for Luyt and always before SARVU meetings ask his wife “Waar is my pilletjies”
19 Feb 2013, 09:09 am
I do not like this Keo rant either. It is juvenile, vindictive and attention seeking….and I hate the ‘ Afrikaaner ‘ jibes……
May I point out , however, that I have seen a lot worse from bloggers bad mouthing Cheecky….yes, I Know he is still alive…
What would those bloggers be saying if Cheecky was dead? Probably be out celebrating….?
Hypocrites….
19 Feb 2013, 09:11 am
What’s everyone getting so worked up about? Very little in the article regarding Luyt’s behaviour is untrue and none of it is news to anyone? Besides it’s an opinion piece, do aome of you really care that much?
I can;t help but notice how hyper-senstive some afrikaners are….the mere mention of the word in an article gets a lot of hackles up. I didn;t see an anti-afrikaner sentiment in the article? Trying to think who else is so knee-jerk sensitive….oh yes, the ANC…. hehe
19 Feb 2013, 09:13 am
@grant10-93: uhm…..as you say, he is still alive…..where’s the hypocrisy in that?
19 Feb 2013, 09:13 am
@Slartibartfast-55:
> Miskien doen ek dit net, hy voel in elk geval ‘n veer vir ons
Dan kan hy soveel artikels oor hasbeen Luke en die Kings skryf wat hy wil en Transformations en sy vyftien aliase en Peter Mokaba kan daaroor juig
19 Feb 2013, 09:14 am
This was my first day on the site and my last… Im out and goodluck to all South African sides in the S15! Hou by die blou . Greetings to all from n sunny day in China.
19 Feb 2013, 09:14 am
@grant10-93: What afrikaner jibes?? Show me one….see this is my point in #94, you’re getting hysterical over something imagined & swept up in the paranoid excitement, have some tea and relax
19 Feb 2013, 09:14 am
Keo.
ufo will be a genuine loss.
19 Feb 2013, 09:15 am
This was my first day on the site and my last… Im out and goodluck to all South African sides in the S15! Hou by die blou . Greetings to all
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